[Vision2020] Costs for UI Email/Lawsuit
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Wed Jan 21 21:08:03 PST 2009
The same would apply to students right? Or do they get to use it for
what ever purpose they wish? Do you really think that faculty and
staff "misuse" computers more than students?
And what constitutes "misuse"? What do you think the incidence of
misuse is by faculty? By staff? By students?
I reset the continual unsupported accusations by you and others which
suggest that the over worked and underpaid faculty at UI and WSU are
somehow acting irresponsibly. Give me ONE piece of evidence to suggest
that there is a legitimate problem here other than some hypothetical
worry of your own. Be more responsible with your words, please!
Joe Campbell
On Jan 21, 2009, at 8:23 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> wrote:
> Some of you seem to not know that it costs the students in fees for
> bandwidth and the computers that are used at the UI. Every year
> students have to pay an increase for all the use of computers, which
> are owned by the ASUI, the repair, and maintenance comes directly
> out of the students pocket.
>
> It is wrong to use the computers and the resources at UI for
> personal use unless you are a student paying for the services and
> resources or an employee using it for official use.
>
> Computers, monitors, paper, printers, bandwidth, keyboards, wires,
> power, technical support for use and maintenance support all costs
> the students money. If UI employees are using the equipment for
> personal use, especially when they should be working, they are
> taking from the students.
>
> How much money is that, I don't know, but it doesn't matter how much
> you are stealing, you are still stealing.
>
> I know students cannot always get access to a computer and have to
> deal with a slowed computer because there is not enough computers
> and bandwidth. I also know that students also have to wait to get
> assistance for technical support, and that students cannot get
> certain types of equipment because there is not enough money.
>
> I can testify to the fact that students had to divert money to
> repair their soccer ball field to increase bandwidth for the
> students because it was overstressed.
>
> So yes, faculty and staff that do use university computers for
> personal use do impact, in a negative way, student life and costs.
>
> ASUI should require faculty and staff that want to use ASUI
> computers for personal use to pay the same fees as the rest of the
> public.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Cc: "<vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>" <vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 5:17 PM
>
> I never said that because there is no cost involved it is not wrong to
> use university resources. I was responding to arguments suggesting
> that it was wrong because of the costs involved. That can't be why it
> is wrong -- if it is wrong -- since there are no costs.
>
> Joe Campbell
>
> On Jan 20, 2009, at 12:32 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>
> > Joe
> > I enjoyed your discussion with Chas and Keely on communion and
> > religion. For the most part I agree with you on the.
> > I am somewhat confused though with your position on the use of
> > university computers. Just because there is not a cost involved does
> > not mean that it is still not wrong. university computer should not
> > be used to promote a political point ow view.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:58:52 -0800
> > To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >
> >> It wasn't an argument. It was a reply to an argument Donovan gave
> and
> >> you gave before that. Your initial post talked about "taxpayer
> >> resources." My question/reply was written in response to that. In
> >> response, you shifted to a new argument. Before responding to it, I
> >> want to know if you think that your last comment is the basis for
> the
> >> Bigot Guy's lawsuit, or if you plan to switch to some new reason
> once
> >> I rebut it.
> >>
> >> And what the heck is "taxpayer time"? Am I using taxpayer
> time now
> >> just because I work for the state?
> >>
> >> Lastly, you wrote in support of Bigot Guy even though you admit
> below
> >> that you don't know the basis of the lawsuit. But my claim that
> you
> >> are a shill was offbase because ...?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "g. crabtree"
> <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Once again I'm confused. I thought I was directly addressing
> your
> >>> argument. Perhaps I misunderstood. It looked to me as though you
> >>> were trying to assert that since no one had yet to attach a dollar
> >>> value to the matter that "it is not clear what the worry is
> about."
> >>> I was merely pointing out a potential flaw in that line of
> >>> reasoning.
> >>>
> >>> For the record, I have no idea of the specifics of Mr. Glasebooks
> >>> complaint. I have not spoken to him or anyone else about the
> matter.
> >>> My point is, was, and will continue to be that IF a university
> >>> employee was using taxpayer time and resources to advance a
> personal
> >>> agenda then a private citizen is well within their rights to bring
> >>> the matter up and have it addressed. Period.
> >>>
> >>> g
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Joe Campbell
> >>> To: g. crabtree
> >>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:31 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>>
> >>> Like always, you are now changing the argument from the one that I
> >>> was commenting on, the one you gave originally. Are you now
> claiming
> >>> that this is the basis of the Bigot Guy's lawsuit?
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 7:45 AM, "g. crabtree"
> <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Lets have a look at the potential "wrong reasons:"
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Anti Wal-Mart? Great, no problem
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. Anti corporate? Swell
> >>>>
> >>>> 3. Anti capitalism? Dandy
> >>>>
> >>>> 4. Anti religion? Fine
> >>>>
> >>>> 5. Anti Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Muslim? Well....
> >>>>
> >>>> 6. Anti Black, Brown, Yellow? Now wait a minute...
> >>>>
> >>>> 7. Anti abortion? Stop right there! Now you've gone to
> far!
> >>>>
> >>>> None of these web sites would cost the tax payer any more then
> the
> >>>> other. Since we can't attach a dollar value to any of
> these, I
> >>>> guess that it's not clear what the worry is about.
> >>>>
> >>>> g
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: Joe Campbell
> >>>> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:13 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>>>
> >>>> Suppose someone used a UI website for the "wrong"
> reasons. What is
> >>>> the cost in actual dollars to the tax payer? If you can't
> put a
> >>>> number on it it is not clear what the worry is about.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Donovan Arnold
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Keely,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It might be that some members of Christ Church feel they
> have been
> >>>>> unjustly attacked with the illegal and improper use of UI
> property
> >>>>> by some of its employees and want to prevent it from
> occurring
> >>>>> again. Which I think is understandable. Nobody wants their
> taxes
> >>>>> to be used against them in biased way. There is lots of
> evidence
> >>>>> that UI employees have used UI property improperly for
> personal
> >>>>> use. So it would be wise to start there, in my opinion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't agree with this avenue to stop this behavior
> though. In
> >>>>> part because even if true, it isn't costly or
> inconvenient to move
> >>>>> off UI's network and get the same services for free or
> easy
> >>>>> somewhere else. And since little financial harm was done
> to the
> >>>>> person filing the complaint, it won't get anyone any
> money except
> >>>>> the lawyers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Donovan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix
> <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> >>>>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>>>> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, godshatter at yahoo.com,
> josephc at wsu.edu
> >>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 2:46 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The great WalMart debate, Donovan, is not likely to be
> solved here
> >>>>> on Vision, and certainly not by me. My point was that it
> seems an
> >>>>> odd subject for such intense Christ Church involvement and
> >>>>> enthusiasm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keely
> >>>>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:30:00 -0800
> >>>>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>>>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com; josephc at wsu.edu;
> kjajmix1 at msn.com
> >>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keely,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think a lot of people like Wal-Mart because it provides
> jobs to
> >>>>> people that have a hard time getting jobs elsewhere. It
> provides
> >>>>> disposable goods at a price more affordable to people with
> lower
> >>>>> incomes. And they like the idea of free enterprise.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I understand many of people's objections to Wal-Mart.
> I just don't
> >>>>> understand why the people that object to Wal-Mart cannot
> >>>>> understand they do good too, and are not lot a whole
> different
> >>>>> than other super chain stores in the country. They are
> just bigger
> >>>>> and cheaper, most the time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Donovan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix
> <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> >>>>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>>>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
> >>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 12:39 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Isn't the main question here something along the lines
> of "why in
> >>>>> God's name would a church organization's
> leadership be so
> >>>>> intensely drawn to a Super WalMart store on the
> Palouse?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or, conversely, "Why in God's name would a church
> organization's
> >>>>> leadership, in their desire to welcome a Super WalMart, be
> so
> >>>>> aggressively snotty toward those who disagree?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keely
> >>>>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:44:58 -0800
> >>>>>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> >>>>>> To: josephc at wsu.edu
> >>>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The current nosuperwalmart.com site doesn't appear
> to be hosted
> >>>>> by the U
> >>>>>> of I. I was wondering if there was an employee page
> that
> >>>>> preceded the
> >>>>>> domain name or something.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the University is not hosting the site, then the
> complaint
> >>>>> must be
> >>>>>> that an employee of the University worked on it. If
> they were
> >>>>> told to
> >>>>>> work on it as normal performance of their duties,
> that's one
> >>>>> thing. If
> >>>>>> the employee was working on it using University
> computers and/or
> >>>>> during
> >>>>>> paid work hours, then at best you have an employee
> breaking the
> >>>>> rules
> >>>>>> of computer usage at the U of I. That does not make
> the
> >>>>> University or
> >>>>>> the State liable for what they were working on. If
> they are
> >>>>> doing it on
> >>>>>> their own time, they have every right to do so.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, does this suit have merit? Any official hosting of
> the site,
> >>>>> or
> >>>>>> employees being paid specifically to work on it by the
> >>>>> University or the
> >>>>>> State?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joseph Campbell wrote:
> >>>>>>> Get a clue. Check the source.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 1/17/09 5:59 PM, "Paul Rumelhart"
> <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've never seen the nosuperwalmart site.
> What are the facts?
> >>>>> Was it an
> >>>>>>>> official UI webpage? Was it the personal page
> of a UI
> >>>>> employee? In the
> >>>>>>>> first case, they have a case. In the second,
> the UI is acting
> >>>>> more as
> >>>>>>>> an ISP hosting personal content. I don't
> know the law there,
> >>>>> but I
> >>>>>>>> doubt it's as cut-and-dried.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What was the URL to the page?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> g. crabtree wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I wish Mr. Glasebrook the very best in
> this Endeavour. The U
> >>>>> of I was
> >>>>>>>>> completely remiss in allowing taxpayer
> resources to be
> >>>>> squandered promoting
> >>>>>>>>> these causes and public officials are
> negligent in their
> >>>>> duties when not
> >>>>>>>>> taking citizen complaints seriously.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> g
> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Hansen"
> <thansen at moscow.com>
> >>>>>>>>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:00 AM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack
> . . .
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Remember Dave Glasebrook?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In case you don't, he's the
> carrothead on the left . . .
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Photos/102907_Glasebrook.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Well, he (for lack of a more
> appropriate pronoun) is back.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Courtesy of the Moscow-Pullman Daily
> News.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Man files petition requesting action
> from governor on
> >>>>> allegations against
> >>>>>>>>>> UI
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A Moscow resident has taken legal
> action against Idaho Gov.
> >>>>> C.L. "Butch"
> >>>>>>>>>> Otter, claiming the governor
> "failed to faithfully enforce
> >>>>> Idaho law."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dave Glasebrook filed a petition for a
> writ of mandate
> >>>>> against Otter in
> >>>>>>>>>> Latah County District Court on Monday.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The document states Otter
> "breached public faith" and
> >>>>> Glasebrook's civil
> >>>>>>>>>> rights by failing to investigate
> Glasebrook's claims that
> >>>>> the University
> >>>>>>>>>> of Idaho covered up illegal computer
> use over the past
> >>>>> several years.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook claims the UI allowed an
> employee to run the Web
> >>>>> site
> >>>>>>>>>> NoSuperWalMart.com using UI computer
> and phone systems. He
> >>>>> also claims the
> >>>>>>>>>> UI allowed people "to send e-mail
> and post messages
> >>>>> containing political,
> >>>>>>>>>> defamatory, threatening or otherwise
> prohibited activity."
> >>>>> The claim is
> >>>>>>>>>> primarily related to Internet postings
> regarding the Moscow
> >>>>> School
> >>>>>>>>>> District's 2007 levy election.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook's petition also asserts
> the UI violated open
> >>>>> records law by not
> >>>>>>>>>> releasing certain employee and student
> e-mails he requested
> >>>>> related to the
> >>>>>>>>>> Web site and postings.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The petition requests Otter order
> Idaho Attorney General
> >>>>> Lawrence Wasden
> >>>>>>>>>> to subpoena information about
> NoSuperWalmart.com, order the
> >>>>> UI to release
> >>>>>>>>>> e-mail and electronic records to
> Glasebrook and assign an
> >>>>> Idaho State
> >>>>>>>>>> Police officer to retrieve material
> from UI computers.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook's final request is for
> Otter to appear before
> >>>>> the court
> >>>>>>>>>> to "explain in detail why he does
> not want to follow the
> >>>>> laws he is sworn
> >>>>>>>>>> to uphold and why he does not want to
> uphold (Glasebrook's)
> >>>>> civil rights
> >>>>>>>>>> and liberties."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Records attached to the petition show
> Glasebrook has been
> >>>>> pursuing action
> >>>>>>>>>> against the UI since 2007. He has
> requested assistance from
> >>>>> Otter's
> >>>>>>>>>> office, Idaho State Supreme Court
> Chief Justice Daniel
> >>>>> Eismann, Latah
> >>>>>>>>>> County Prosecuting Attorney Bill
> Thompson, Moscow
> >>>>> Prosecuting Attorney Rod
> >>>>>>>>>> Hall and former UI President Tim
> White.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Now, where did I put those public
> records requests?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Great! Here they are.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned, Moscow. More to follow . .
> .
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
> >>>>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "For a lapsed Lutheran born-again
> Buddhist pan-Humanist
> >>>>> Universalist
> >>>>>>>>>> Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself
> there's really no
> >>>>> reason ever to go
> >>>>>>>>>> to work."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> - Roy Zimmerman
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>> This message was sent by First Step
> Internet.
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>>>>>> List services made available by First
> Step Internet,
> >>>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse
> since 1994.
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step
> Internet,
> >>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse
> since 1994.
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step
> Internet,
> >>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since
> 1994.
> >>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>>>
> =======================================================
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more
> with m
> >>>>> ail. S
> >>>>> ee how it works.
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more
> with m
> >>>>> ail. C
> >>>>> heck it out.
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>> =======================================================
> >>>>
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>> of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> ======================================================= Y>
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> ======================================================= Y>
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
> 3D======================= >>> >> >> >> >> >>
> ======================================================= List
> services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> e>
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