[Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule

Sat Feb 28 15:33:46 PST 2009

"...a doctor, lawyer, teacher, banker, and others, everyday do crap at their jobs they have moral problems with. That is the challenge in life, live and not commit sins against the others. You cannot pick and choose the treatment you want to give and withhold based on your feelings about a situation you know little or nothing about."

This is incorrect in several respects. Many doctors decide that they would prefer to be pediatricians and do not treat adults. Many doctors decide to be plastic surgeons and do not treat enlarged prostates. Some specialize in the brain and do not become podiatrists. In the same way many doctors decide that they want to respect and prolong life and do not become abortionists. The idea that just because you are an M.D. you must perform procedures that are abhorrent is nonsense.

Were a doctor hired to work at a hospital whose policy was to provide life ending procedures to the pre-born and refused, that might  be one thing but, at many hospitals, particularly religiously affiliated institutions performing infanticide or euthanasia is not part of their mission statement. A doctor might well base his decision to work at such an institution on just that policy and to penalize them for that decision is, again, nonsense.

I suppose I can understand a person not wanting to have to deal with the consequences of their bad actions but to force another to aid and abet you against their will and under threat of government sanction is beyond nonsense, its unconscionable.

g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Donovan Arnold 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com ; garrettmc at verizon.net 
  Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule

        Garret,

        I believe that abortion is murder in the eyes of God. It is the intentional taking of a developing life. I think any woman that has an abortion should feel more guilty of that than a person who commits accidential manslaughter. They should be highly discouraged from having an abortion because they will have to live with that decision for the rest of their life. 

        Having said that though. I don't think a fetus can be considered a person according to the law. It isn't something the law can touch. It is kind of like hating your neighbor, abandoning you elderly parents, or not obeying God. It may be evil and wrong, but you really cannot make it illegal or force people to behave the way you want. 

        I think someone that has more children than they can provide for should be charged with child abuse and neglect. A farmer that doesn't feed this cattle and horses goes to jail, so should parents. 

        I don't agree with the conscious rule. If you cannot do the job, quit, that is what the rest of us have to do. Does a banker say, "Hey, it is against the Bible to charge such an interest rate." Bullshit, a doctor, lawyer, teacher, banker, and others, everyday do crap at their jobs they have moral problems with. That is the challenge in life, live and not commit sins against the others. You cannot pick and choose the treatment you want to give and withhold based on your feelings about a situation you know little or nothing about. 

"That being the case, it seems wise to ensure women have access to abortions that areas safe as possible."Two points, one, it is impossible for it to be safe because it is terminating a life. That is theopposite of safe. Second, when people are not ensured to have access to life saving procedures which they have no
 control over or decision in, such as certainoperations and treatments, why should a woman have access to a voluntaryprocedure which most people object to wanting to pay or participate in? If shewants to pay for the procedure herself, that is her body, we cannot stop it, butwhy should I have to pay for it, and make sure she can get one on my dime?I agree with you about birth control. I think that everyone should be given educationabout birth control. The government should not hide information.  Best Regards,Donovan

        --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net> wrote:

          From: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net>
          Subject: [Vision2020] Obama to Rescind Conscience Rule
          To: vision2020 at moscow.com
          Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 11:14 AM

The right of woman to be able to terminate a pregnancy she is unwilling orunable to see through trumps the right of a fetus. That may seem harsh and Iwould never encourage a woman to have an abortion. The fact is, having anabortion is probably the hardest decision a woman will ever make. You can makethem feel guilty about that, and perhaps some will choose not to have anabortion, but there will always be some who decide to have an abortion. Thatbeing the case, it seems wise to ensure women have access to abortions that areas safe as possible.According to http://wuphysicians.wustl.edu/dept.aspx?PageID=8&ID=35,between 10% to 50% or more of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. Thatbeing the case, the argument that God wants all pregnant women to give birthbecomes ridiculous. Why would there be such a high miscarriage rate if that wereso?It's ironic that many of the same
 people against abortion also promoteabstinence-only sex ed, or try to limit access to birth control, which makes methink they aren't too interested in reducing unwanted pregnancies, butmostly in promoting the idea that woman are baby-making machines.Which brings us to the woman who recently had octuplets. Does she have theright to have 8 babies at once when taxpayers are going to be paying up to $1million a piece for their post-natal care, particularly when she already has 6kids, particularly when she is a single mom, particularly when she isemotionally unstable? Does the fertility doctor who implanted those 8 embryos inher have the right to do so, particularly knowing the woman's issues?There are too many kids born into irresponsible households, leading to allkinds of problems down the road that society as a whole will have to deal with.It only makes sense that if there are some who see that they
 won't be ableto responsibly care for that child, or that their pregnancy will lead to healthissues for the woman, that they should be given a safe way to terminate theirpregnancy. That is a personal decision that government should keeps its nose outof apart from ensuring that doctors are allowed to do their job.Until all adults are given equal rights to live as they see fit, extendingrights to fetuses seems hypocritical since some peoples' rights are thoughtby some to be a little more special than other peoples rights. This issue is yet again another example of religious people trying to forcetheir views on everybody else. There is a reason it is illegal to pass religiouslaws, and we need to ensure fanatics don't violate our Constitution.Saying all this, I have to wonder if the 'conscience rule' as Iunderstand it, is a big deal. Isn't preventing people from expressing theirreligious views
 all illegal, too?I'm not too keen on government restricting that right, nor am I keen ongovernment forcing people to do things they aren't morally inclined to do.gclevg writes:"Looks as though the right to kill the unborn trumps another's rightto conduct their business as they, in accordance with their conscience and their morals, deem appropriate.I guess some peoples rights are a little more special than other peoples rights."======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet,  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.                  http://www.fsr.net                                 mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com======================================================= 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  =======================================================
   List services made available by First Step Internet, 
   serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
                 http://www.fsr.net                       
            mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
  =======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20090228/c43b5f2b/attachment-0001.html 