[Vision2020] Humane interrogations work

[g. crabtree]

Complete extermination of the enemy WOULD be my first choice but I do realize the difficulty that entails.

My alternate, more realistic, solution, such as it is, would be for us to be vigilant, root out leaders, bases, and training areas as best we can and destroy them. Identify funding sources and communication pathways and choke them off. Help Iraq become a 21st century republic. Try and help Afghanistan into becoming at least a peaceful 19th century functioning oligarchy. Do our best to encourage more peaceful/less radical Muslim nations to do more to help and pray God for improvement over time. I really don't foresee the problem going away entirely but I do believe that we can make the job description of radical islamic terrorist more dangerous and unappealing than other more productive pursuits.

Now, how about you? Let's hear a few specifics of your plan that aren't your generic Rodney King plaintive plea for peace. Should we apologize for putting the world trade towers, the USS Cole, and misc. embassies in the path of terrorist attack and offer to pay billions in reparations/ransom? (I doubt it would help, who do we pay off ?) Should we abandon Israel? (I doubt it would make any difference, Israelis have a silly notion that they have a right to live) Abandon our interests in the region? (I doubt it would help as without western help most of these nations economies would grind to a halt) Not allow US culture to seep into the region? (I doubt it would help, the genii is already out of that bottle)

Now, lets hear your specific solution.

g


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Garrett Clevenger" <garrettmc at verizon.net>
To: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>; "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work


> What's your answer, g, to how we are going to win this war? Is it complete extermination of the enemy? Do you really foresee this ending? Or is the final solution when all of us are dead, ala mutual assured destruction?
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work
>> To: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>, garrettmc at verizon.net
>> Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 7:44 AM
>> "So, instead of continuing to manufacture martyrs and
>> terrorists, I
>> suggest that we master the techniques of apology and
>> submission,
>> otherwise known as compromise, dialogue, and honest, mutual
>> sacrifice."
>> 
>> While I am extremely sceptical that martyrs and terrorists
>> are, in any meaningful way, manufactured by us except for in
>> as much as we exist, why don't you run down the
>> solutions for me.
>> 
>> Apology is easy. Obama has proven that he can tell any bald
>> faced lie and sell it like a Fuller brush man. An insincere
>> I'm sorry should be no trouble at all.
>> 
>> Submission is where it becomes a little more interesting.
>> What compromise should we be willing to make? How about no
>> US presence in the middle east? Abandon our legitimate
>> interests to our great detriment and bolt. How about
>> allowing sharia to become the law of the land? Perhaps get
>> our women back under control and under the veil? I'm
>> thinking there could be a few problems with these
>> "compromises."
>> 
>> Dialogue. Now that should be easy but, with who? Osama
>> perhaps? How about Maulana Masood Azhar, Mahmoud
>> Ahmadinejad, Omar Abdel-Rahman, or Dr. Walid Ahmad Fitaihi.
>> Which one of these nut jobs has the required suck to make
>> any dialog meaningful?
>> 
>> And lastly the "honest mutual sacrifice." Would
>> that be something like we throw Israel to the jackals and in
>> return they stop cutting the heads off of innocent business
>> men and journalists? How about we stop allowing our culture
>> to spread to the rest of the world and they quit using
>> retarded children, women, and cripples to blow up ice cream
>> parlors?
>> 
>> So, what were you thinking would be the appropriate
>> compromises and sacrifices we should make to put an end to
>> radical islamic extortion?
>> 
>> g
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chasuk"
>> <chasuk at gmail.com>
>> To: <garrettmc at verizon.net>
>> Cc: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>;
>> "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work
>> 
>> 
>> > On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 23:35, Garrett Clevenger
>> <garrettmc at verizon.net> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> [Gary] end(s) writing, "I, Personally, refuse
>> to apologize and I'm not to wild about submission,
>> conversion is out of the question, and when it comes to
>> death I figure better them then me. Call me crazy."
>> > 
>> >> That's not crazy, as we all feel it.
>> That's what's driving the whole insanity, though,
>> and all the bombs and blood spilt's not going to change
>> it. Which leads me to conclude we're creating our own
>> hell, which is quite ironic.
>> > 
>> > I have agreed with most of what you have written,
>> Garrett, but I
>> > disagree here.  I, for one, don't "feel
>> it."
>> > 
>> > I sometimes apologize even when it isn't entirely
>> heartfelt.  Usually,
>> > my apology is reciprocated, and we both end up feeling
>> better, and
>> > more amenable to compromise and dialogue.  Obviously,
>> apology is not
>> > always a solution, but there is nothing intrinsically
>> evil or cowardly
>> > about it.
>> > 
>> > Submission is something that we all do every day of
>> our lives, whether
>> > we are children or adults.  We do if we want our
>> relationships to be
>> > successful, that is.  Husbands submit to their wives,
>> and wives to
>> > their husbands.  It isn't a sign of weakness, it
>> is acknowledging that
>> > we each have a right to boundaries that must be
>> respected.  Groveling
>> > isn't necessary.  When we submit to each
>> other's boundaries, we
>> > demonstrate that that the relationship is important
>> enough to us that
>> > we are willing to make sacrifices to make it work.
>> > 
>> > Islam has historically been very tolerant of other
>> faiths.  Conversion
>> > usually isn't expected or required.  Yes, we are
>> talking about
>> > extremists, but it is our annihilation that is their
>> goal, rather than
>> > our conversion,  which brings us to the final point...
>> > 
>> > Death isn't scary to a martyr, especially if their
>> martyrdom results
>> > in the simultaneous death of infidels, preferably many
>> at the same
>> > time.  Martyrs are like roosters in the hen house.  It
>> only takes one
>> > to fertilize an awful lot of chickens, and one martyr
>> to kill an awful
>> > lot of us.
>> > 
>> > Martyrs are far more tenacious than roosters, so
>> exterminating them
>> > all is unlikely, unless we make it US policy to engage
>> in holy war and
>> > genocide.  Personally, I'm voting against a US
>> jihad.
>> > 
>> > So, instead of continuing to manufacture martyrs and
>> terrorists, I
>> > suggest that we master the techniques of apology and
>> submission,
>> > otherwise known as compromise, dialogue, and honest,
>> mutual sacrifice.
>> > 
>> > Chas
>> >
>
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