[Vision2020] Humane interrogations work

[g. crabtree]

"So, instead of continuing to manufacture martyrs and terrorists, I
suggest that we master the techniques of apology and submission,
otherwise known as compromise, dialogue, and honest, mutual sacrifice."

While I am extremely sceptical that martyrs and terrorists are, in any 
meaningful way, manufactured by us except for in as much as we exist, why 
don't you run down the solutions for me.

Apology is easy. Obama has proven that he can tell any bald faced lie and 
sell it like a Fuller brush man. An insincere I'm sorry should be no trouble 
at all.

Submission is where it becomes a little more interesting. What compromise 
should we be willing to make? How about no US presence in the middle east? 
Abandon our legitimate interests to our great detriment and bolt. How about 
allowing sharia to become the law of the land? Perhaps get our women back 
under control and under the veil? I'm thinking there could be a few problems 
with these "compromises."

Dialogue. Now that should be easy but, with who? Osama perhaps? How about 
Maulana Masood Azhar, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Omar Abdel-Rahman, or Dr. Walid 
Ahmad Fitaihi. Which one of these nut jobs has the required suck to make any 
dialog meaningful?

And lastly the "honest mutual sacrifice." Would that be something like we 
throw Israel to the jackals and in return they stop cutting the heads off of 
innocent business men and journalists? How about we stop allowing our 
culture to spread to the rest of the world and they quit using retarded 
children, women, and cripples to blow up ice cream parlors?

So, what were you thinking would be the appropriate compromises and 
sacrifices we should make to put an end to radical islamic extortion?

g


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
To: <garrettmc at verizon.net>
Cc: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; "vision 2020" 
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane interrogations work


> On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 23:35, Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> [Gary] end(s) writing, "I, Personally, refuse to apologize and I'm not to 
>> wild about submission, conversion is out of the question, and when it 
>> comes to death I figure better them then me. Call me crazy."
>
>> That's not crazy, as we all feel it. That's what's driving the whole 
>> insanity, though, and all the bombs and blood spilt's not going to change 
>> it. Which leads me to conclude we're creating our own hell, which is 
>> quite ironic.
>
> I have agreed with most of what you have written, Garrett, but I
> disagree here.  I, for one, don't "feel it."
>
> I sometimes apologize even when it isn't entirely heartfelt.  Usually,
> my apology is reciprocated, and we both end up feeling better, and
> more amenable to compromise and dialogue.  Obviously, apology is not
> always a solution, but there is nothing intrinsically evil or cowardly
> about it.
>
> Submission is something that we all do every day of our lives, whether
> we are children or adults.  We do if we want our relationships to be
> successful, that is.  Husbands submit to their wives, and wives to
> their husbands.  It isn't a sign of weakness, it is acknowledging that
> we each have a right to boundaries that must be respected.  Groveling
> isn't necessary.  When we submit to each other's boundaries, we
> demonstrate that that the relationship is important enough to us that
> we are willing to make sacrifices to make it work.
>
> Islam has historically been very tolerant of other faiths.  Conversion
> usually isn't expected or required.  Yes, we are talking about
> extremists, but it is our annihilation that is their goal, rather than
> our conversion,  which brings us to the final point...
>
> Death isn't scary to a martyr, especially if their martyrdom results
> in the simultaneous death of infidels, preferably many at the same
> time.  Martyrs are like roosters in the hen house.  It only takes one
> to fertilize an awful lot of chickens, and one martyr to kill an awful
> lot of us.
>
> Martyrs are far more tenacious than roosters, so exterminating them
> all is unlikely, unless we make it US policy to engage in holy war and
> genocide.  Personally, I'm voting against a US jihad.
>
> So, instead of continuing to manufacture martyrs and terrorists, I
> suggest that we master the techniques of apology and submission,
> otherwise known as compromise, dialogue, and honest, mutual sacrifice.
>
> Chas
>