[Vision2020] A Paradox

[Joe Campbell]

Obama was just elected. What criticisms of Bush have I made, prior to  
your post on this topic?

Joe Campbell

On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:25 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> Joe
> You do not have a very good memory. All you have to do is check the  
> archives. You will find that I have criticized Bush on numerous  
> occasions. I do not see any criticism of Obama by you, Tom or Nick.  
> To his credit Sunil did criticized him on the secrecy issue.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:57:08 -0800
> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox
>
>> Who said no one? I'm saying not everyone, not me, not most folks.
>>
>> I'm not celebrating anything. There is a tough road left ahead for  
>> all
>> of us, not just Obama. But it is only one month, comprared with 8
>> years. Say one thing negative about Bush compared with your comments
>> about Obama and maybe I'll take you seriously. Give me a break,  
>> Roger.
>> Where were your complaints about Bush in the last 5 years? I didn't
>> see them. Then suddenly there is this. Give the man some time before
>> passing judgment.
>>
>> Joe Campbell
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:19 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You are totally naive if you think that no one voted for him for
>>> that reason. It is of course not the only reason. I do not think
>>> that very many of the hard core left would vote for Thomas Sowell.
>>> My point was that Obama's election was a great historic event and
>>> should be celebrated in that context, but that context only.
>>>
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:57:36 -0800
>>> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox
>>>
>>>> You don't read your own posts or mine well either. First, you  
>>>> failed
>>>> to mention Bush in your original post, so my assumptions are not
>>>> unwarranted. Second, I never said Bush was the only problem.
>>>>
>>>> Also, who besides you is talking about skin color? The  
>>>> implication of
>>>> your post was that some people voted for Obama because he was
>>>> black. I
>>>> find no other sensible connection to the subject of race. That is
>>>> offensive to him, to blacks, to me, and to anyone else who voted  
>>>> for
>>>> him.
>>>>
>>>> Aren't you telling me and other Obama voters that we're impressed  
>>>> by
>>>> Obama because he's black, that that is the main reason we voted for
>>>> him? If not, what are you saying? Maybe you should figure that out
>>>> before you put up another post.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 11:09 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>> You don't read very well. I never said that Bush did not deserve
>>>>> some of the blame. He does. The problem with you is you want to  
>>>>> put
>>>>> it all on him, which is not the case. In actual fact he did  
>>>>> bring up
>>>>> the problems with Freddie and Fannie in 2003 and was rebuffed. He
>>>>> should not have let up on it and he should never have done the
>>>>> rebates or promoted the bailouts. Obama is not to blame as
>>>>> president, but he does share some of the blame because of his
>>>>> association with ACORN. He will to be blame for the prolonged
>>>>> recovery. You put all of the blame on Bush. There is no way to
>>>>> verify it one way or the other, but I am convinced that we would  
>>>>> be
>>>>> in much greater trouble today if either Gore or Kerry had won. I  
>>>>> did
>>>>> not support Bush on a lot of things but he was better that the
>>>>> alternative.
>>>>> My point was that skin color should not have anything to do with  
>>>>> it
>>>>> and that it should be dropped, but in this election it was a major
>>>>> concederation and is part of the reason Obama receives  such
>>>>> adulation. It should not have had any baring on it.
>>>>> Roger
>>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:40:20 -0800
>>>>> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox
>>>>>
>>>>>> We just finished eight years of one of the worst two term
>>>>>> presidencies
>>>>>> in US history. This man started a war for no damn reason that  
>>>>>> we as
>>>>>> still stuck it, ran up the deficit (which Clinton got down to  
>>>>>> zero
>>>>>> after it was run up by previous Republican administrations), and
>>>>>> left
>>>>>> us in the worst economic situation since the Great Depression.  
>>>>>> And
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> see fit to place the blame on a man who has been in office for
>>>>>> about a
>>>>>> month and any Democrat or liberal you can think of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is wrong with you? For all the talk from conservatives about
>>>>>> personal resonsibility I see little of it. If you don't think  
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> Bush deserves any of the blame for our current economic troubles,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> you have a serious problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what on earth does the color of the president's skin have  
>>>>>> to do
>>>>>> with any of it? If you want a color free society, then stop  
>>>>>> talking
>>>>>> about race in discussions where it is totally irrelevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You and others voted for an idiot. Twice. And now were're paying
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price. It is just that simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2009, at 11:45 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People are right to celebrate the election of Obama as a  
>>>>>>> historic
>>>>>>> event. It truly is. It has been along hard struggle to archive  
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> equality that is stated in the constitution. A lot of brave men
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> been involved in the struggle. Lincoln, Frederick Douglass,  
>>>>>>> Booker
>>>>>>> T. Washington, Medger Evers, King and may others. Some have  
>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>> their lives. This is a bitter sweet victory, but wont be truly  
>>>>>>> won
>>>>>>> until the color barrier is completely erased. A time when ones
>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>> is no more of an issue than being Irish or German and race is  
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> even mentioned. The tragedy is that Obama's economic views are  
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> horribly wrong. What he is doing will prolong the recovery. I  
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be in the poor house before the economy recovers. Already people
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> saying medical care will have to prioritized. An old codger like
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> will be considered to have lived long enough. Any ailment will  
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> allowed to run its course.
>>>>>>> Obama blames Bush, talking about the failed polices of the last
>>>>>>> eight years. Bush certainly bares some of the blame. The main
>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>> however lays with Acorn, Obama himself, Carter, Franks Dodd and
>>>>>>> Clinton. Franks and Dodd were warned about the problem with
>>>>>>> Freddie
>>>>>>> and Fannie and said that everything was fine. Dodd and Obama are
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> two largest recipients of contributions from Freddie and Fannie.
>>>>>>> Thes are now the people in charge of fixing the problem. This is
>>>>>>> like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
>>>>>>> Obama calls for a bipartisan effort to pass his program. If he
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> bipartisan support he first needs to rain in Rham Emanuel.  
>>>>>>> Emanuel
>>>>>>> wamts to take the census away from the Commerce Department and  
>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>> it under his control This is to politicize it. The goal is to
>>>>>>> ensure
>>>>>>> democratic control forever. Obama is saying to the republicans  
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> essence "I want to destroy you and I would like this to be a
>>>>>>> bipartisan effort". The Republicans would have to have a death
>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>> to go along with it. totally aside from the harmful effect to  
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> country.
>>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>>>
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