[Vision2020] Humane Treatment of Detainees Gets Results

[Joe Campbell]

What bothers me about Gitmo is that vague space of not being US  
criminals -- which means no constitutional rights -- and not being  
prisoners of war -- which means no international rights.

I think this smacks against the founding ideas of our country, that  
some rights are universal, not dependent upon the whims of world  
powers, not taken away on the basis of fear and nothing more.

Joe Campbell

On Feb 9, 2009, at 10:22 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> The bad treatment of prisoners at GITMO is a way overplayed. Yes  
> there were 4 who were waterboarded. This is also done to some of our  
> elete troops as part of there training. On the whole the treatment  
> of detainee is exemplary. They are allowed to observe their  
> religious customs. They are allowed to exercise and participate in  
> recreation activities. If any of the guards are caught mistreating  
> or ridiculing their customs, they are the ones that are subject to  
> disciplinary action.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Ted Moffett starbliss at gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:05:04 -0800
> To: "nickgier at roadrunner.com" nickgier at roadrunner.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Humane Treatment of Detainees Gets Results
>
>> It's not just Cheney who might need to worry about international  
>> travel
>> plans.  Arrest warrants for CIA operatives involved in renditions  
>> have
>> already been issued in Italy and Germany for those involved in  
>> illegal
>> rendering of suspects.  And there is the well documented case of  
>> Canadian
>> Maher Arar, who is suing US entities regarding his rendition from  
>> the US to
>> Syria where he was tortured (documented to be an accurate claim  
>> according to
>> the Canadian government investigation into this case).  There may  
>> be other
>> efforts to issue arrest warrants for Bush Administration officials,  
>> US
>> military and or CIA operatives, in other nations, though I doubt  
>> any such
>> actions in the US will go anywhere.  Already, Obama has dismissed  
>> pushing
>> for prosecution of US war crimes or related offences involving the  
>> Bush
>> administration.  And Leon Panetta, Obama's appointee for head of  
>> the CIA,
>> must be playing political games (as he should, given he will head  
>> the CIA)
>> in his recent statement that he does not know of the "validity" of
>> rendering for torture carried out by the Bush administration.  It  
>> is well
>> documented that suspension of human rights for prisoners as  
>> outlined in the
>> Geneva Convention were supported by the Bush Administration, and  
>> that the US
>> transferred prisoners to other nations, that routinely practice  
>> torture, for
>> interrogation:
>>
>> http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/05/nation/na-torture5
>>
>> The move to restore U.S. adherence to Article 3 was opposed by  
>> officials
>> from Vice President Dick
>> Cheney<http://topics.latimes.com/politics/people/dick-cheney>'s
>> office and by the Pentagon's intelligence arm, government sources  
>> said.
>> David S. Addington, Cheney's chief of staff, and Stephen A.  
>> Cambone, Defense
>> undersecretary for intelligence, said it would restrict the United  
>> States'
>> ability to question detainees.
>> ----------
>> Panetta's recent comments on Bush Administration rendition and  
>> torture:
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/06/panetta-takes-back-remark_n_164650.html?page=12
>>
>> WASHINGTON — CIA Director-nominee Leon Panetta formally retracted a
>> statement he made Thursday that the Bush administration transferred
>> prisoners for the purpose of torture.
>>
>> "I am not aware of the validity of those claims," he said.
>>
>> -------------
>> Articles on arrest warrants in Germany and Italy for CIA operatives:
>>
>> http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/31/news/germany.php
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/05/italy.spy/index.html
>> -------------
>> Information on the case of Maher Arar, rendered from the US to  
>> Syria where
>> he was tortured:
>>
>> http://www.maherarar.ca/index.php
>> ------------
>> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/8/09, nickgier at roadrunner.com <nickgier at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings:
>>>
>>> The author was national security advisor for Bush Pere and work  
>>> for the CIA
>>> for 30 years.
>>>
>>> I hope that Cheney does not have any foreign travel plans.  He  
>>> could end up
>>> in jail for war crimes.
>>>
>>> Nick Gier
>>>
>>> February 8, 2009
>>> The New York Times
>>> Speaking With the Enemy
>>> By DONALD P. GREGG
>>>
>>> WHEN former Vice President Dick Cheney warned last week that  
>>> terrorists
>>> will be emboldened by President Barack Obama's decision to close  
>>> Guantánamo
>>> and to ban harsh interrogation techniques, I was reminded of a  
>>> story.
>>>
>>> During wartime service in Vietnam with the C.I.A. from 1970 to  
>>> 1972, I was
>>> in charge of intelligence operations in the 10 provinces  
>>> surrounding Saigon.
>>> One of my tasks was to prevent rocket attacks on Saigon's port.
>>>
>>> Keeping Saigon safe required human intelligence, most often from  
>>> captured
>>> prisoners. I had a running debate about how North Vietnamese  
>>> prisoners
>>> should be treated with the South Vietnamese colonel who conducted
>>> interrogations. This colonel routinely tortured prisoners,  
>>> producing a flood
>>> of information, much of it totally false. I argued for better  
>>> treatment, and
>>> pressed for key prisoners to be turned over to the C.I.A., where  
>>> humane
>>> interrogation methods were the rule, and more accurate  
>>> intelligence the
>>> result.
>>>
>>> The colonel finally relented and turned over a battered prisoner  
>>> to me,
>>> saying, "This man knows a lot but he will not talk to me." We  
>>> treated the
>>> prisoner's wounds, reunited him with his family and allowed him to  
>>> make his
>>> first visit to Saigon. Surprised by the city's affluence, he said  
>>> he would
>>> tell us anything we asked. The result was a flood of actionable  
>>> intelligence
>>> that allowed us to disrupt planned operations, including rocket  
>>> attacks
>>> against Saigon.
>>>
>>> Admittedly, it would be hard to make a story from nearly 40 years  
>>> ago into
>>> a definitive case study. But there is a useful reminder here. The  
>>> key to
>>> successful interrogation is for the interrogator — even as he co 
>>> ntrols the
>>> situation — to recognize a prisoner's humanity, to understand hi 
>>> s culture,
>>> background and language. Torture makes this impossible.
>>>
>>> There's a sad twist here. Mr. Cheney forgets that the Bush  
>>> administration
>>> followed this approach
>>> with some success. A high-value prisoner subjected to patient  
>>> interrogation
>>> by an Arabic-speaking F.B.I. agent yielded highly useful  
>>> information,
>>> including the final word on Iraq's weapons programs.
>>>
>>> His name was Saddam Hussein.
>>>
>>> Donald P. Gregg, the national security adviser to Vice President  
>>> George H.
>>> W. Bush from 1982 to 1988 and ambassador to Korea from 1989 to  
>>> 1993, worked
>>> for the C.I.A. for 30 years. He is the chairman of the Korea  
>>> Society.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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