[Vision2020] Nation of Laws

[Andreas Schou]

Roger --

(1) We are not a nation of laws if our laws do not apply to our government.
Especially not when the law in question (our law against torture) is
specifically intended to constrain the actions of people purporting to
torture "under color of law."

(2) I'm going to set aside the absurdity of your analogy for a moment here
and accept, in the context of this argument, that violations of the law by
the country's most powerful politicians are morally equivalent to violations
of the law by Americans lacking even basic rights of citizenship. I'm also
going to accept that violations of the law in order to commit extraordinary
and illegal acts of violence against people wholly under our control are
equivalent to sitting down at a lunch counter or peaceable assembly.

Even accepting that these insane things are true, you've missed the point of
civil disobedience. The point of civil disobedience is to subject yourself
to the law to prove the law's injustice. If you're not submitted to the
judgment of the law, you haven't committed civil disobedience; you've just
proven the law to have no effect. The admission that you're subject to the
law -- and that that law is unjust -- is part of civil disobedience. By
civilly disobeying, you make the (poor) bet that when the jury comes out of
seclusion, they will join you in disobeying the law.

I'm willing to take that bet with regard to torture.

(3) You're telling me, Roger, that it's cowardice to sell out American
principles in order to (possibly) save a few American lives?

-- ACS

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:14 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> For some reason "reply all" did not work on your post.
> Yes I thing we should be a Nation of Laws. To not be would result in
> anarchy or a dictatorship.
> This does not mean that we should blinding follow all laws. Laws that
> violate peoples freedom or put us in harms way in national security should
> be opposed even at the peril of going to jail as those in the civil rights
> movement did. To  do other wise is cowardice.
> Roger
>
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