[Vision2020] Socialist Governments

[Chasuk]

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:26, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> I don't think that the governments that you sited are successful as you do.

You like the words "I don't think..."  They absolve you from having to
pay attention to the evidence that I or anyone else presents.

 If the markets were freer and taxes lower how much better would they
be? In any case individual rights are more important.

That's a question of moral philosophy, and a point of philosophy in
which you and I apparently disagree.  In a civilized society, my
happiness depends in large part on the happiness of my neighbors.
This involves negotiation and cooperation, and sometimes sacrificing a
little bit for the greater good.  Having said that, I don't see that
the citizens of the countries I enumerated have given up much,
certainly not as much as they have gained.  I get up in the morning
and (pardon my alliteration) I shit, shower, and shave.  Then I go to
work, or I go to class, or I occupy myself in some other manner until
I go to bed.  I enjoy the company of my wife and my friends.  One day,
I will die, but until then I'm going to repeat that process.  I don't
require much more to be happy.  in my enumerated countries, and in
this country, and in dozens and dozens of other countries, people are
generally pretty happy following roughly those steps.  I'm not
selfish.  I don't require more than my fellow humans to feel good
about myself or enjoy life, assuming that most of the needs that
Abraham Maslow iterated are met semi-consistently.

> Government should do only those things that people cannot do for themselves.

I'm guessing that you have a different understanding of "can" that I
do.  I believe that what can happen happens.  What can't, doesn't.
People always do what they "can" do, nothing more.  I might not
perceive any reason for their inability to do things that I can, maybe
things that seems trivial, but those reasons exist, or they would be
doing them.  Stones fall when you drop them.  People die.  if it could
be otherwise, it would be otherwise.

 > Even though it is not directly an economic stimulus the government
should be spending more in infrastructure such as highways.

I disagree.  Trains, yes.  Highways, no.  te highways were one of the
biggest mistakes in our country's history.

 > They should be taking better care of our veterans. The FDA is
understaffed. It is not able to adequately protect our food supply. I
appreciate Saundra's concern here. There is a lot of "Snake Oil" in
the health food industry. There should be stricter controls on
advertizing claims. These things are in the public interest and cannot
be done by the individual.

Agreed.

> Where is spend my money on charity should be up to me not the government. I am in the poverty class by some government statistics, but I spend more on a percentage bases than some elite leftists such as Joe Biden. I use Charity Navigator as a guide. I only give those with a 3 or 4  stars rating. I used to give to "March of Dimes" and even sent out mailings for them, but not any more. They only have a 2 stars raring. I do support our Veterans by giving to the Disabled Veterans and the USO. Bill Gate should be able to say where his money goes and not have it redistributed by the government. For those of you who revere Lincoln he said:"It is wrong to take what a man has earned by hard work and give it to some one who did not work for it".  Frederick Douglass, Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver who were all born slaves felt the same way. I may be mistaken but I believe that even Malcolm X thought so too.To take what I have earned and give it to some one who won't !

Taxation doesn't have a personal line-item veto.  If it did, I would
agree with you.

Chas