[Vision2020] Doug Wilson's debate

[lfalen]

There used to be several atheist that wrote for "National Review" and were Economic Conservatives, Max Eastman was one of them.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Ted Moffett starbliss at gmail.com
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:51:57 -0700
To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Doug Wilson's debate

> I agree.
> 
> "Left" and "right" as political stereotypes are misleading, of course.  A
> thoroughgoing libertarian shares the same firm defense of some forms of
> human liberty (defending Gay marriage, for example) against the power of the
> State, as a socialist leaning "liberal," though the liberal advocates far
> more State control over some forms of economic behavior.  Some libertarian
> conservatives, who would allow legal abortion and
> prostitution, legalized drugs, Gay marriage, and little or no censorship in
> the media, are an entirely different animal than the "religious
> conservatives" who promote State power against liberty by promoting State
> regulation of individuals lives on all these issues.
> 
> Christopher Hitchens atheist or agnostic views on religion might lead some
> to call him a "leftist" but this is because, perhaps, here in the US,
> religion and politics are connected to an extreme.  The very idea of
> "conservative" in the US automatically induces the image of a "religious
> conservative."  The idea an atheist could be a firm believer in free
> markets, less government, less taxation, and support an aggressive
> militarized foreign policy (Hitchens passionately defended the invasion of
> Iraq), all views that many associate with "conservatism," contradicts the
> stereotype, if this exists, that atheists or agnostics are also tax and
> spend liberal leaning anti-war thinkers.  Where such a stereotype could come
> from, I am not really sure...  Perhaps it comes from assumptions about the
> mindset common in the halls of academia, where so many atheists or agnostics
> are assumed to be oriented toward critiques of capitalism and abuse of State
> power in a militarized foreign policy.
> 
> My take on Christopher Hitchens is that he is a independent thinker who
> resists fitting any easy stereotype of being a right or left winger.  It
> seems he delights in being a contrarian, though I don't think he is
> frivolous about his independence of thought.  I recall watching Hitchens
> defend the invasion of Iraq years ago.  I have also heard him debate atheism
> vs. theism.  He is quite a passionate and engaging speaker!  With a rapier
> quick wit, backed by a very well read mind!
> 
> Hot off the presses, is this article in the Atlantic from Christopher
> Hitchens discussing Karl Marx with references to the current global economic
> crisis.  As to whether this article reveals Hitchens to be a Marxist leaning
> thinker the reader can decide, but it seems he steers a path down the middle
> between Marxism and capitalism:
> 
> http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200904/hitchens-marx
> 
> Quote from the article at the website above:
> 
> At the conclusion of his article, John Cassidy wrote of Marx, “His books
> will be worth reading as long as capitalism endures.” That would appear to
> mean that Marxism and capitalism are symbiotic, and that neither can expect
> to outlive the other, which is not quite what the prophet intended when he
> sat all those arduous days in that library in Bloomsbury, and swore hotly to
> Engels, “I hope the bourgeoisie will remember my carbuncles until their
> dying day.”
> ------------------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
> 
> On 4/30/09, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hitchins is an atheist with an agenda. I have not read anything by him
> > other that what has been printed in "The Skeptical observer" I am unaware
> > that he is otherwise a leftist. I don't think that that is enough to place
> > him on the left.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:33:30 -0700
> > To: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Doug Wilson's debate
> >
> > > Unfortunately the book is released by Cannon Press, which is located
> > > in Moscow. I think this was a huge mistake. Look, if I were to own a
> > > press, how many books would I have? A lot more than I have now!
> > >
> > > IMO Hitchins is as far to the left as Wilson is to the right; I have
> > > no use for either view. It would be a shame if we came away from their
> > > debate with the view that these were our only options.
> > >
> > > The myth is that the left is swayed by radicals like Hitchins but the
> > > reality is the right is swayed by radicals like Wilson.
> > >
> > > Joe Campbell
> > >
> > > On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > This link was posted in a forum I frequent which discusses religion.
> > > > Nobody there, to my knowledge, is local here except for me.  Doug
> > > > was in
> > > > a debate with (among others) Christopher Hitchins.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rfmedia.org/RF_audio_video/Other_clips/CT-Expo-Panel/
> > > >
> > > > I didn't realize Doug co-authored a book with him ("Is Christianity
> > > > Good
> > > > for the World?").  Congratulations to Doug.  I don't agree with much
> > > > of
> > > > what he said, but kudos for being invited and for doing well (I
> > > > thought)
> > > > in the debate.
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> 
>