[Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall you
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Thu Apr 23 19:22:50 PDT 2009
You are wrong on this.
Joe Campbell
On Apr 23, 2009, at 7:16 PM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
wrote:
> This seems to me to be a fair question. If it's considered torture
> to put a
> guy in a box with a caterpillar, what about a cell with a fellow
> terrorist?
> It's really just a matter of degree. If depriving an unlawful
> combatant of
> sleep is torture what about not allowing the poor dears to sleep in
> on the
> weekends? Stress positions criminal? What about not providing
> orthopedic
> queen sized beds and massaging barcoloungers? Pouring water on their
> ugly
> mugs too harsh? What about insisting that the prisoners take a monthly
> shower whether they need it of not?
>
> Rape as torture? To be sure although I'll take it over having my skin
> removed with eyebrow tweezers, being lowered into a chipper shredder
> up to
> my navel, being beaten with rods till the number of broken bones
> exceeds
> ones I.Q. (I know, I know a few fingers and a rib in my particular
> case) a
> week or two of ground glass suppers and battery acid enemas or being
> rubbed
> in fat and roasted till your so overcooked the New York Times food
> critic
> would send you back to the chef and write a scathing review in the
> Sunday
> style edition.
>
> Who ever remarked that there ought to be a line over which we do not
> go is
> correct. There is a difference between a harsh interrogation and
> torture. In
> my opinion we did a pretty fine job of walking that line. Had the
> interrogators indeed been sadistic torturers and not just asking
> poignant
> questions firmly we should be seeing a trail of corpses and
> cripples, not a
> gaggle of surly Sunni's and snippy Shiites anxious to be released
> and take a
> second shot at killing and maiming Americans. It's my understanding
> that the
> interrogation of these criminals resulted in good information and
> saved
> lives and the men who brought us that result should be commended, not
> condemned.
>
> g
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bear at moscow.com>
> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>; "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com
> >;
> <bear at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so
> shall you
>
>
>> Roger,
>>
>> WHERE do you draw the line as far as "technique" is concerned?
>> IF the alleged terrorist is a woman, is it ok to rape her till she
>> tells
>> us about the plot
>> to bomb
>> LA?
>> Or a man for that matter?
>>
>> AND remember, IF it's justified for the US to do it, it is
>> justified for
>> everyone else
>> too!
>>
>> The reason it's referred to as a "slippery slope" is that the only
>> direction to go is DOWN
>> HILL!
>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> That's an extremely dangerous point of view, Roger. How far do
>>> you take
>>> it? It's possible that daily random inspections of citizen's
>>> houses by
>>> SWAT teams could yield some data. Or that torturing every Muslim in
>>> America would also yield results. The Internet could be used to
>>> pass
>>> encrypted information between terrorist cells, maybe it should be
>>> shut
>>> down? Perhaps a "shoot-on-sight" curfew would help make us safer
>>> from
>>> the threat of terrorism?
>>>
>>> I'm tired of this country being run by a bunch of cowards. Draw a
>>> moral
>>> line in the sand, and stick to it. Do what is right because it is
>>> right, not because it is expedient.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> lfalen wrote:
>>>> Bear
>>>> You are wrong on this.
>>>> Because a confession was extracted fron this lady does not mean
>>>> that
>>>> she was a spy.
>> What
>> we may have done at GITMO had no bearing on how Iran conducts
>> interrogations. They would
>> use brutal tactics no matter what we do.
>>>> As to our security I believe the following:
>>>> 1. If an interrogator thinks that there is good reason to believe a
>>>> detainee has
>> information of an impending attack and does not use what ever means
>> is
>> necessary to obtain
>> that information and
>>>> 2 There is a subsequent attack that results in a loss of life.then
>>>> 3. Those interrogators should be prosecuted for dereliction of
>>>> duty.
>>>> Former CIA Director Casey said that over 50% of the valid
>>>> information
>>>> about al-Quaeda
>> came from detainees and that an attack on L.A was thwarted by
>> information
>> obtained from
>> KSM.
>>>> Roger
>>>>
>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>> From: bear at moscow.cotwo year period? How about ten years?m
>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:50:18 -0700
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall
>>>> you
>>>> reep
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well, what we have said is fine, is now coming back to bite us.
>>>>>
>>>>> American-Iranian journalist Roxana Saberi was sentenced to eight
>>>>> years' jail on
>> Saturday
>>>>> after
>>>>> being convicted in a secret trial of spying for the United
>>>>> States. Her
>>>>> Iranian-born
>>>>> father, Reza
>>>>> Saberi, says she may have been tricked into a confession,
>>>>> believing
>>>>> she would be
>> released
>>>>> if
>>>>> she co-operated with the authorities. He said his daughter was so
>>>>> depressed by her
>>>>> sentence -
>>>>> the harshest ever given to a dual national on security charges in
>>>>> Iran - that she is
>>>>> threatening
>>>>> to go on hunger strike.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will they force feed her like we have force fed the prisoners at
>>>>> Guantánamo Bay
>> Detention
>>>>> Camp when they have gone on hunger strikes? IF they do, what
>>>>> makes us
>>>>> think we have a
>>>>> right
>>>>> to object?
>>>>>
>>>>> Did they use enhanced interrogation techniques to discover that
>>>>> she
>>>>> was a spy? And
>>>>> remember,
>>>>> she was arrested for SPYING. If she was in the United States
>>>>> could we
>>>>> have sued
>> enhanced
>>>>> interrogation techniques? US Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
>>>>> said on BBC Radio
>> 4
>>>>> that
>>>>> since these methods are not intended to punish they do not
>>>>> violate the
>>>>> Eighth
>> Amendment
>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> the United States Constitution, barring "cruel and unusual
>>>>> punishment", and as such
>> may
>>
>>>>> not
>>>>> be unconstitutional.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, we started this dog fight, now we pay. How do we get back
>>>>> on the
>>>>> moral high
>> ground
>>>>> where this kind of behavior from ANY GOVERNMENT is wrong? I
>>>>> believe it
>>>>> starts with
>> the
>>
>>>>> indictment and arrest of George W. Bush et al. Or don't they think
>>>>> they'd get a fair
>>>>> trial? They
>>>>> sure as hell would get better treatment awaiting trial than they
>>>>> gave!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>> http://www.fsr.com/
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>>
>>
>
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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