[Vision2020] Little note to Donovan (was six gay men)

Mon Apr 6 11:08:45 PDT 2009

Ellen,

I never said it was the reason the US declared war against Germany. But it was the reason we dismantled the German government completely and took it over, established the State of Israel, and had the Nuremberg Trials. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Mon, 4/6/09, Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Ellen Roskovich <gussie443 at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] Little note to Donovan (was six gay men)
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, godshatter at yahoo.com, philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 10:02 AM

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I don't know what they're teaching in school these days, but I don't remember world or U.S. outrage over nazi treatment of Jews as the reason for our European involvement in WWII.  Even the Catholic Church in Rome sat on it's hands and did nothing.  Anti-Semitism is still alive in Germany and around the world. . . the bloodshed of WWII did not end it.

Ellen A. Roskovich

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:55:20 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: godshatter at yahoo.com; philosopher.joe at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Six gay men shot to death in Iraq

Joe,

Yes. Just like Nazi Germany and Japan, or wipe them out. Do you think we had a right to stop Nazi mistreatment of Jews, or was that not a reason enough to remove a government?

Joe, is there any crime that nation can do to a group of people that you think gives a nation the right to take military actions against that nation?

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Six gay men shot to death in Iraq
To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 4:35 PM

The advice seems to be: if you think they permit horrible actions, then you can take over their country.

Joe Campbell

On Apr 5, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

Is this limited to Iraq, or should we declare war on everything that is non-American?

Paul

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Six gay men shot to death in Iraq
To: vision2020 at moscow.com, "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 12:39 PM

Paul,

As a straight male, I am sure it is easy for you to dismiss out of hand, the horrendous crimes against minorities and woman in these societies and ignorantly try to compare them to US standards, by suggesting I single handedly handle the situation if I don't like it. 

But, you don't know what it is like to live everyday of your life in total fear that someone is going to kill you, even or especially, a family member or husband, If you did, you would not be dismissing this so readily. 

People that defend this, and protect this, enable these people to do this, and are just as guilty as those that do it. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Six gay men shot to death in Iraq
To: vision2020 at moscow.com, "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 12:08 PM

George Bush grabbed a tiger by the tail, for no apparent reason, and now he's handed it off to us.  This isn't about "protecting their lifestyle".  It's about getting the hell out of there and leaving them to their own devices in as stable a way as possible.  

If it makes sense to you "wipe these societies out", then I'd suggest getting yourself a weapon and heading for Iraq.  Besides, it's not like no one has ever died in this country for the crime of being gay.

Paul

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] Six gay men shot to death in Iraq
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 11:56 AM

I want to know, from some of these liberals that want to protect the lifestyle of the Middle Eastern Nations, how you think these societies should be allowed to exist where people kill members of their own family, simply because of their sexual orientation. And not just kill them, but premeditated massacres. 

Afghanistan is voting on a bill that legalizes men to be able to rape their wives, and these are supposedly the "good people" in these societies. Pakistan's ruling Taliban set their women on fire for disobeying Muslim law, or their Husband. The Middle East forces woman to marry men they do not know, love, or even like. 

Doesn't it make since to wipe these societies out? Eliminate them while they are still small in size and limited in power? How many millennium must pass before woman, gays, lesbians, and those that are a little different stop being set on fire and shot before the world says, "ENOUGH! evolve already, of or we will destroy your Neanderthal cave man thinking society."? 

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Six gay men were shot dead by members of their tribe in two separate incidents in the past 10 days, an official with Iraq's Interior ministry said. 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/05/gay.deaths.iraq/index.html

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