[Vision2020] Citing Primary Sources Through Secondary Works

[nickgier at roadrunner.com]

Note to Visionaries: My intent was that all of this be on the Vision. Many times I forget to click "Reply All."

Hi Jeff,

I'm bringing this back on the Vision because of the seriousness of the charges you made against Andreas.

You have ducked the question I posed to you: what is the difference between what I did in my Gandhi research and what Andreas did?  I don't care to go through the details of what you debated.  That's simply not necessary. I just want you to do tell me, Andreas, and others on this list in concise terms what the difference is.

Let me clarify one important thing.  You somehow have the notion that reviewers of my Gandhi work checked it for plagiarism. No such thing ever happened.  As I stated in my first post, Gandhi scholars quote the primary sources through secondary sources all the time.

This is a serious charge that you have leveled.  You have to back it up or apologize big time.

Nick

I am going offlist again. 
 
Schou is the only one who can know what he did and what his intent 
was.  I can say that if he had submitted his original post to me as 
written (in an academic setting) I would have moved forward with 
charges of plagiarism. 
 
Since you haven't had time to go through the full dialogue, we 
probably won't get anywhere by focusing on details. 
 
As I have pointed out numerous times, this is a problem he created, 
not me.  Read the details, get back to me and we can chat offlist. 
Pay particular attention to the material prepared by Alperin-Sheriff 
and the Terms of Use of the McClatchy site (which he admits he 
used).  He doesn't seem to appreciate how reckless and careless his 
actions were and how significant the consequences can be (ie, Biden's 
use of Kinnock's speech). 
 
All I have done is point out to him that he needs to approach the Law 
School Administration and deal with the matter with them. He is 
subject to the Law School Honor Code. 
 
What he chooses to do to resolve this is up to him.  I plan no action 
on my part. 
 
As to a comparison with your work - no, I am not investing time in 
that comparison.  I trust that the reviewers of your work handle that. 
 
At 10:57 AM 9/17/2008, you wrote: 
>Hi Jeff, 
> 
>This is response is no response.  Would you care to distinguish between what 
>Andreas did and what I've done for 18 years in my Gandhi research? 
> 
>Nick 
> 
> 
>---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote: 
> > At 10:27 AM 9/17/2008, you wrote: 
> > >Greetings: 
> > > 
> > >"I've not followed the exchange between Andreas and Jeff in complete 
> > >detail ..." 
> > 
> > 
> > That more or less covers my response. 
> > 
> > 
> > >I'm preparing for a keynote address that I will give on Gandhi's 
> > >birthday on Oct. 2 at San Diego State University.  When I first 
> > >started doing my Gandhi research in the early 1990s, it was very 
> > >difficult to get the primary sources, even through interlibrary 
> > >loan.  Until I went on sabbatical to India, I relied on secondary 
> > >sources, especially very fine anthologies of passages arranged by 
> > >subject and fully documented. 
> > > 
> > >When I finally got to India, I was able to sit down and check out 
> > >references and read for context in Gandhi's Collected Works (100 
> > >volumes!) and the journals Young India and Harijan.  Very few Gandhi 
> > >scholars read every page of these huge volumes. That is why we have 
> > >bibliographers. 
> > > 
> > >Gandhi kept meticulous records of everything that happened in his 
> > >ashrams, and most of that does not make for very edifying 
> > >reading.  The Collected Works have a very good index, so that was 
> > >very handy to find the passages that I needed for a particular topic. 
> > > 
> > >As soon as finish this post, I will go downstairs to my reading 
> > >couch and re-read the fabulous anthologies that take me right to the 
> > >passages that I want to review, and perhaps I'll find some new good 
> > >ones.  The Collected Works are now on line, but they are even more 
> > >clumsy to use than the actual books themselves.  For crucial 
> > >passages I will double check the original references again on line. 
> > > 
> > >I believe this is what Andreas did, and if I'm right, then I'm just 
> > >as guilty of plagiarism as he is.  I wouldn't be invited to San 
> > >Diego if that is what my colleagues think I did. 
> > > 
> > >Nick Gier