[Vision2020] Palin Candidacy Helps Planned Parenthood Fundraising

[joekc at roadrunner.com]

Are you stating for the record that Dale Courtney's website is acting on behalf of Christ Church?
Because all I know is Doug Wilson asked him to take down a post and even though he says he
doesn't do such things he did take it down. I'm just noting a certain causal connection. That is all.

It is interesting that sometimes you interpret claims literally, failing to see what strikes me as
clear irony as in the Planned Parenthood issue, and other times you read things into prose that 
aren't there. It is an interesting combination!

All I was saying is, were it my candidate, I'd have tried as hard as I could to make our views on 
that topic -- we seem to be on the same page about that, at least -- known.

Joe Campbell

---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote: 
> I respect that you invoke God's intervention - it would appear your 
> argument needs all the help it can get.
> 
> Of course, to go to a young man carrying a sign and speak to him 
> about that sign would require that I actually be at the site of the 
> sign.  I was not and therefore could not have responded to him in any fashion.
> 
> The first I took note of the incident was when I saw the picture the 
> next day in the paper.  I did not approach Christ Church - it did not 
> occur to me as I did not note an affiliation. Are you stating for the 
> record that the young man was acting on behalf of Christ Church, that 
> is are you suggesting that Christ Church authorized the young man to 
> do what he did?
> 
> I did not know of that affiliation.
> 
> Do I find the incident deplorable? - of course - Just as I find the 
> behaviors of sending donations to Planned Parenthood on behalf of 
> Gov. Palin deplorable.
> 
> 
> At 11:21 AM 10/2/2008, you wrote:
> >Piece of work? I'm just trying to be as honest as possible.
> >
> >All you need to do to get out to my argument is to say I'm wrong and 
> >that, in fact, you did try to
> >tell Wilson that he the guy with the bigot sign was way out of 
> >bounds. Either you did or didn't.
> >Only you can tell us which. Either you get on the soap box when it 
> >serves you well or you get on it
> >to make a more general point, to show that this kind of nonsense 
> >should not be tolerated.
> >
> >If you can't say this much, then you are not sticking to your own 
> >claimed standards of what is and
> >what is not appropriate during a political election. If you said 
> >nothing, then at best you have a
> >double standard. If holding a sign saying opponents are bigots is 
> >appropriate, what isn't?
> >
> >If I were you, I'd have responded to my post by saying that I did 
> >talk to Wilson to see what he
> >could have done, since having the standards you profess to have and 
> >not wanting to appear like
> >a partisan hypocrite, I'd want to prove that I can apply my 
> >standards to both sides. But you didn't
> >say that. You just tried to obfuscate -- say something that would 
> >make folks forget about the
> >issue. All I'm saying is I do not, and others should not, take your 
> >soap box gestures seriously.
> >
> >You are in the game, Jeff. You help to create the standards and you 
> >should live with the
> >consequences of your own actions. Or change. The choice is yours, God help us!
> >
> >--
> >Joe Campbell
> >
> >---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
> > > Oh Joe - you are a piece of work.
> > >
> > > Let me guess, next you will call me a liar - and then you will
> > > threaten to come and punch me in the nose. Or you will try to get me
> > > fired as treasurer. You seem to me to be that man "full of sound and
> > > fury - signifying nothing".
> > >
> > > At 09:37 AM 10/2/2008, you wrote:
> > > >Just to clarify, here is what I think Jeff's "connection" to the
> > > >event noted below is:
> > > >
> > > >Recently it became obvious that Doug Wilson gets to say what does
> > > >and what does not happen for  members of Christ Church. He asked
> > > >Dale Courney to remove the offensive joke by No Weatherman and
> > > >Courney did so. If had wanted the man with the bigot sign to stop
> > > >holding the sign, the man would have stopped. That is what I believe
> > > >and there is evidence for it.
> > > >
> > > >Jeff Harkins was part of one candidate's team, a treasurer I
> > > >believe. If he had gone to Wilson and said "Look, to call Linda Paul
> > > >a bigot, after she has done so much for the community and given her
> > > >record on human rights, is just absurd. Same goes with the others.
> > > >This is wrong! He should stop and apologize now!" I have every
> > > >reason to believe that the man would have put the sign down and
> > > >issued a public apology. That didn't happen, ergo Harkins didn't ask.
> > > >
> > > >That is why I don't take much stock in Harkins on his soap box about
> > > >how to behave during an election.
> > > >
> > > >Care to point out which step is wrong in my analysis, Jeff? I doubt
> > > >it. Which is not to say that you won't issue some sweeping soap box
> > > >speech intended to get us off THIS topic.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Joe Campbell
> > > >
> > > >---- joekc at roadrunner.com wrote:
> > > > > You are way off base, Jeff.
> > > > >
> > > > > To claim a donation to Planned Parenthood was to honor Governor
> > > > Sarah is irony. Everyone knows
> > > > > her views on the topic. There is no intent here to misrepresent
> > > > those views. To suggest otherwise
> > > > > is like saying a report that your previous comment was REAL
> > > > intelligent (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
> > > > > is to issue you a compliment. It isn't. It is sarcasm, meaning
> > > > the opposite of what is literally said.
> > > > >
> > > > > One might want to say the strategy is rude since it is
> > > > in-your-face but there is nothing more
> > > > > in-your-face than depriving someone of the right to make one's
> > > > own choice about such a complex
> > > > > issue. It is just another instance of demanding a level of
> > > > civility in politics that Palin and the rest
> > > > > of the radical right are unwilling to deliver to their opponents.
> > > > For someone who led a recent
> > > > > campaign that benefited from the fact that a man held a sign
> > > > downtown calling your opponents
> > > > > "bigots," you have a lot of nerve complaining about this. I don't
> > > > remember you saying a thing then.
> > > > >
> > > > > And no I won't ever forget that incident, or your involvement with it.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Joe Campbell
> > > > >
> > > > > ---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Chasuk,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I use an older dictionary - probably because I am older.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Defame - to attack or injure the reputation or honor of by false and
> > > > > > malicious statements; malign, slander or libel.
> > > > > > [Webster's New World, 3rd College Edition, 1988]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To claim a donation to Planned Parenthood was to honor Governor Sarah
> > > > > > Palin is a false and malicious statement.  The intent is to malign
> > > > > > the Vice Presidential Candidate Gov. Sarah Palin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is interesting that we agree on the vendetta against Christ
> > > > > > Church, e.g., counterproductive and hypocritical.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 08:45 PM 10/1/2008, you wrote:
> > > > > > >On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 19:54, Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > An obvious attack on Gov. Palin's character and her values.  Read
> > > > > > > carefully,
> > > > > > > > you could spare a lot of energy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I do read carefully, but I also know what "defame" 
> > means,  when it it
> > > > > > >apparent that you don't.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  > Tell you what - let's start a campaign, in
> > > > > > >  your name, to provide donations to Christ Church.  Are you in?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Certainly.  I would be honored.  I'm not a member of the
> > > > > > >I-hate-Doug-tribe.  The beliefs and practices of Kirkers are no more
> > > > > > >alarming than the beliefs or practices of numerous Roman 
> > Catholics or
> > > > > > >Mormons in Moscow, so I consider the entire vendetta 
> > counterproductive
> > > > > > >and hypocritical.
> > > > > >
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