[Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in peril!
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sat Nov 8 11:32:06 PST 2008
Don't conversations generally hop from topic to topic when you're
conversing with people? If you want to force everyone to stay on topic,
go write a blog and invite comments.
Paul
Ellen Roskovich wrote:
> *This is a good example of how subjects get highjacked on this forum.
> My original post was about BIGOTRY. It was not about keeping score in
> the game of politics and it had nothing to do with taxes. It was
> about HATE. . . pure and simple. *
> **
> *The only well thought out responses I have received so far have been
> *OFFLINE*. . . which is fine. At least some of you DO GET IT.*
> **
> *Actually. . . it's not fine. . . it's troubling and it's sad. And I
> would hate to think it's because people are AFRAID.*
> **
> *So gimme back my subject, go get your own and cry someplace else. *
> **
> *Ellen A. Roskovich*
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> To: vpschwaller at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 23:42:19 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in
> peril!
>
> How badly can you possibly get beaten up in your tax filing next
> April? First, if you think Obama taking office in 2009 can
> retroactively jack up the tax rate for 2008, you're giving him way,
> Way, WAY more credit of his power reach then I think is even possible
> in American government. And second, you must be making a crap load of
> money to begin with if you're worried about a significant tax hike on
> income - and that is actually a pretty nice 'problem' to have so I
> don't exactly have a whole lot of sympathy for you if sympathy is what
> you're looking for by claiming that you're going to get badly beaten
> up paying taxes next year. Alright...I'll give cut you some slack and
> say Boo-Hoo! By the way, have you seen the latest unemployment
> numbers? They're HUGE!!! Me personally, I'd be happy paying
> significantly more taxes under Obama because it would translate to me
> making more of an income under Obama than under Bush.
>
> If you're so tax averse, then avoid generating taxable income. It's
> not that difficult. I have 2 friends that pay no taxes. One doesn't
> have a social security number, lives on a boat, and makes about $15k
> per year under the table doing odd jobs because he would rather not
> make triple that amount working for a company if it means paying taxes
> to our evil government. The second one (OK maybe friend is a stretch
> here....he is a bitter crusty guy who hates my guts because I joke
> around too much for him) rents a barn to live in, drives around a beat
> up 1972 Firebird, and at one point had an ungodly net worth due to the
> value of his stock holdings since he was employee #7 of a small high
> tech firm turned big that was ultimately acquired (and significantly
> overpaid for) by a big company. So what was the problem? Selling any
> of that stock would mean writing that much too painful to write check
> to the hated IRS and to the State. Better to ride that stock all the
> way from its high of $88 per share down to 88 cents per share,
> completely avoid paying taxes because for some odd reason that's of
> paramount importance, and then claim 'I was right all along!!!' when
> 10 years prior you stated that 'this crappy company ain't going to
> amount to anything'.
>
> Also, you're concerned about a potentially unfair mistrust or
> suspicion if Obama's campaign promises are unfulfilled? I'm sure
> you're joking about this.
>
> -Scott
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:47:30 -0800
> From: vpschwaller at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in
> peril!
>
> /It seems more like you're saying that Bush has no culpability and the
> Dems are fully to blame which is absurd./
>
> No no Scott, I'm not saying that at all. In fact I think it is
> exactly the opposite which is why I'm a bit confused. The Dems seem
> to have done all the can, or at least tried to do what they set out to
> do when Pelosi took over, but have been "hamstrung" by the current
> administration. If this is indeed the case, why not simply lay the
> blame fully on Bush and the rest of his administration? Certainly the
> Bush administration has taken a good share of well-deserved blows, but
> when the Congressional approval rating has been consistently 10 to 15
> points lower than Bush's, it makes me wonder what's up.
>
> Are you saying the American public is simply fickle and the blame JUST
> gets passed around to everyone?? If that is the simple yet accurate
> explanation, so be it, but I'm just not buying it yet!
>
> Yes I agree with you it is not going to be a rosy situation for Obama
> and his administration. I'm not sure people can appreciate how slow
> things may actually move, and I'm afraid this is going to generate a
> perhaps unfair mistrust or suspicion about campaign promises and
> delivery. But I have to admit I for one will be looking at next
> year's tax filings to see how badly I get beat up!
>
> Thanks for your comments!
>
> GS
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > Why would you find it strange Glenn? Approval / dissapproval seems
> to me to
> > be based on the economy. If the economic engine is humming and
> anyone who
> > wants a job can find gainful employment, Congress and the President
> both get
> > a thumbs up. Whether or not Obama and Congress can make forward
> progress on
> > any agenda is really up to them and how much they can realistically
> take on
> > while being hamstrung with the cost of two wars as well as the
> staggering
> > cost of the so-called economic rescue package. I thought Clinton's
> first 2
> > years in office with a Democratic Congress was an excruciatingly poor
> > combination, but that last 6 with a Republican Congress were spectacular
> > (admittedly from purely selfish viewpoint).
> >
> > If you want to say that the current mess can be blamed on Bush and
> > Congressional Dems, I'm in total agreement. I'm not sure you're saying
> > that, though. It seems more like you're saying that Bush has no
> culpability
> > and the Dems are fully to blame which is absurd. Ronald Reagan worked
> > miracles - in my opinion - with a Democratic Congress. He pushed
> through
> > sweeping tax reductions in his 6th year by going up in front of
> Congress and
> > saying 'win one for the Gipper!'. So it can be done...just not from
> a guy
> > like George W. Bush. He sucked with a GOP Congress and he sucked
> worse with
> > a Pelosi / Reid Congress. He just plain sucked as a President. Good
> > riddance come January. It's been a painful 8 years. At least the
> Carter
> > years were half of that time although since I was a lot younger, it
> seemed
> > to be about the same duration to me.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:49:45 -0800
> >> From: vpschwaller at gmail.com <mailto:vpschwaller at gmail.com>
> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in
> >> peril!
> >>
> >> Well yes, I think anyone can see that the Bush administration was not
> >> particularly "friendly" towards legislation put forth by the
> >> Democrats, but I find it odd that the American public would hold this
> >> lack of action against the Democrats (of whos legislation I assume
> >> they would approve), and NOT the governing body who is putting the
> >> brakes on everything? It's not as if the Dems threw up their hands in
> >> resignation and said "OK - you've got us. We'll give up and go home."
> >> THAT would justify poor approval ratings.
> >>
> >> In other words, why be so bitterly antagonistic against such an august
> >> group and hold the Democratic congress to blame for lack of positive
> >> action by the current administration?? I just don't think Andreas' or
> >> Sunil's explanation is completely correct or satisfactory.
> >>
> >> So there is more to the story here, and I would find it very strange
> >> if simply bringing in Democratic administration suddenly shifts
> >> congressional approval from 15% to 75%.
> >>
> >> More thoughts?
> >>
> >> GS
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
> >> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >> > What the Glenns aren't mentioning here is that the primary
> difference is
> >> > that Obama isn't going to be as likely to veto legislation
> produced by
> >> > the
> >> > Dems as Bush was.
> >> >
> >> > Sunil
> >> >
> >> >> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:20:10 -0800
> >> >> From: vpschwaller at gmail.com <mailto:vpschwaller at gmail.com>
> >> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Don't you get it? EVERYONE'S rights are in
> >> >> peril!
> >> >>
> >> >> Hmmm - seems to me this was a common thread NW had been
> hammering home
> >> >> for awhile: Everyone's Rights Will Be (and are now) at Risk. But not
> >> >> to belabor that point.
> >> >>
> >> >> My question is, given that the current approval rating for a
> >> >> DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY (and even a greater majority now) congress is
> >> >> abysmal, how is simply electing a democratic president going to
> change
> >> >> the public perception of congress? And why is their approval rating
> >> >> at it's lowest point in history to begin with?? I mean, YOU guys put
> >> >> THOSE guys in there - and you're not happy about what they have
> done?
> >> >>
> >> >> I am indeed confused.
> >> >>
> >> >> GS
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:28 AM, Ellen Roskovich
> <gussie443 at hotmail.com <mailto:gussie443 at hotmail.com>>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > The long awaited for election is finally over. We breathe a
> sigh of
> >> >> > relief
> >> >> > and look forward to the promise of change and hope for the future.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > However, there's also a dark side to this past election. It is so
> >> >> > disturbing that one of our states would have an initiative on the
> >> >> > ballot
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > change their state constitution, to allow for discrimination
> against
> >> >> > one
> >> >> > specific group of citizens. And then it passed. Bigotry is now
> law.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We need to keep an eye on our neighbor states, because what
> affects
> >> >> > them
> >> >> > today , could affect us tomorrow. We must be ever vigilant of
> >> >> > distant outside forces that would try to manipulate events
> close to
> >> >> > our
> >> >> > home. We must realize that hate was well funded. . . money was
> poured
> >> >> > into
> >> >> > California by groups that preach love. "Love your neighbor". . . .
> >> >> > but
> >> >> > make
> >> >> > sure it's only a certain kind of love that we approve of.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ellen A. Roskovich
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
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