[Vision2020] just sarcasm? no!
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Wed May 14 15:24:11 PDT 2008
Your silence is deafening, Keely.
I am just as certain, though, that Arnie (aka Doudalchri Wilcourwit) will
take serious offense to its intent.
For that reason I believe we all owe Arnie (aka Doudalchri Wilcourwit) a
moment of well-deserved silence.
For you, donnie-boy and all the things you do.
Hush,
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
>
> (deliberate silence)
>
> Keely
>
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:37:01 -0700
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] just sarcasm? no!
> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Rev. Keely, It is sad you try to defend your stereotyping of people.
An> d it is also sad that you only like white guys that "know their
place."
> My suggestion, to you Keely, is not to attack people based on their
race,> gender, etc. if you want people to be open to looking at things
from a
dif> ferent angle. Your tactics of kicking a guy repeatedly in the
groin,
fo> r having the audacity of being born male, and wondering why some men
ask
wh> y you do that, and respond by saying, because you are a white male,
doesn't> help your cause. I am curious Keely, how I personally have
benefited
f> rom being a white guy? You don't know me and my situation well enough to
ma> ke that claim. You are simply making a generalized stereotype that ALL
WHIT> E GUYS have it better then all other people. And that simply is not
true.
I> t is a racial stereotype. Just
> as assuming that all minorities and women have it worse off then white
men> .. I understand that this country has had a 250 year history of
discrim> ination against Non-Whites, women, and some religions. But
assuming that
no> body else is under fire or discriminated against, or that white men
cannot
> be discriminated against is horrendously flawed thinking. Reverse
discr> imination hinders the cause of human rights. It attacks and
vilifies those
> that wish to better understand. Most people don't have a problem,
including> white guys, what a person's gender, race, religion, creed,
disability,
ori> entation, or national origin is. We don't. Really, we don't give a
hoot.
Br> inging it up every ten seconds and focusing in on it like that is the
entir> ety of a person is a step backwards. Making sure every panel and
staff has
> a perfect ratio of Whites, Blacks, India, Mexicans, Women, Men,
Homosexuals> , persons with a disability,
> etc is STUPID and destructive. It is time to move on and get out the
60s.
> Hire people based on merit, and see people as an individual, not their
race> , gender, disability, etc. Every person is a minority, unique, and
should
n> ot be categorized. I hope Keely, you never work at a homeless
shelter,> or a food bank, because no doubt you would feed the white guy
last,
becaus> e in your mind, he has it better than everyone else. Best
Regards,
> Donovan
>
> keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote: Dear Donovan, or whoever
ge> ts to play him this morning,
>
> I believe you may have missed, or ignored,
> the part about "trading in social division;" in other words, "white
guys"
> who benefit from racism, sexism, etc., and who trade in -- encourage,
take
> part in, further the cause of, manipulate through -- social division.
>
> These people (please re-read the first sentence) are the ones who annoy
me
> when they ask in pseudo-innocence why "the rest of us" care about those
thi> ngs. Some white males are like that. Most are not. I'm married to a
whit> e guy who I love deeply. I cherish the two white guys I'm raising.
I'm
in> finitely fond of the white guy who's my dad. They are all privileged
white> men who seek to understand the "other" in a society that defines
"othernes> s" too often as "not of the prevailing white, Protestant, male
standard,"
a> nd who recognize their privileged status and use what they have and what
th> ey know to empower and care for those around them. They're also
acutely
aw> are of how much they need other
> people. They don't dare suggest that other people are simply poor
imitati> ons of them; they see other people -- women, non-Anglos, gays,
poor
people,> non-Christians -- as intrinsically and uniquely valuable
expressions of
th> e love of a Creator who transcends every possible category we could
claim
f> or ourselves. You'll have to ask yourself if you're like that, or like
the> guys in my initial post.
>
> But it's a lot more fun to rant and rave against me, I know, so have at
it.> I just wish you had the guts to use your real name. Either way,
though,
> have a lovely day.
>
> Keely
>
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:03:10 -0700
> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] just sarcasm? no!
> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Keely, " I find it more than a little annoying when white guys who
tr> ade in social division "
> This is precisely the type of racist, discriminatory, sexist,
derogator> y language that makes me ask why you think this helps end
discrimination
an> d further better understanding? You think because someone is
white, or
> male, or a certain brand of Christian, they cannot participate, or know
any> other type of discrimination or hardship, or have anything
meaningful or
u> seful to contribute? This commentary is disgusting, hurtful and
deliberatel> y divisive. I would think that after decades of
attacking people for
t> heir race, gender, religion, disability status, sexual orientation, to
end
> discrimination against it would be long recognized as a tactic that
doesn't> work and just puts people off. When you attack someone for
their
gend> er, as you do, or their religion, as you do, or their race, as you
do, you
> turn people off. You think your woes, and pains,
> and discrimination is worse and less justified than what others may go
thr> ough. And this is not always the case, and a big stereotype
perpetrated by
> you and others that needs to be stop. It is so hurtful, to be told you
are
> worthless, have no opinion, or could know no discrimination because of
your> skin color, gender, religion. As though that is everything your
are, and
n> obody else is discriminated again. That is SO offensive, and factually
inco> rrect. Ask yourself why all the other Western Modernized
Nations,
Fra> nce, Britain, Germany, Italy, Sweden, don't have the hang ups that
the US
d> oes about Race, Religion, Gender, Disability etc. They have had women
leade> rs, great ones, and women in every position, without having the
hostile,
ne> gative, nasty, self righteous discriminatory and divisive positioning
your
> have. Your obsession, that is constantly insulting people, and
> pointing out peoples differences as a weakness, doesn't not exist. As a
re> sult, they don't have the problems that the US has with it. I
don't
ca> re if you are a women, you are still a proud sexist. I don't care your
race> , you are still a racist. I don't care your religion, you are still
against> freedom of religion. And yes, Keely, I legally fit into two
minority
g> roups that are "specially protected" by the federal and state
government.
S> o don't play those games with me. You don't know what discrimination I
have> faced. Or what court and legal battles I have faced, or what
adversity I
h> ave faced. But you know, I don't think discriminating against people
becaus> e they are not a women, or because they are white, or richer than
me, or
do> n't have a disability, or they are a Christian, or some other
characteristi> c that isn't is like me, is the answer--as you do.
> Nor do I obsess about it. If we would just hire people based on
me> rit, and give everyone an equal shot, we would not have to obsess over
diff> erences in people. Or like you, attack them people they don't fit a
minorit> y group you can easily identify by meeting them in person.
Best
Regard> s, Donovan
>
> keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> Visionaires,
>
> I wasn't too terribly worried that my "why
> not ask a patriarch from the League of the South?" comment earlier today
-> - based on "Donovan's" question about why everyone gets so worked up
about
> race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. -- would be seen as sarcastic to
peo> ple. It was; I think we all know that I do sarcasm fairly well,
sometimes
> not with noble intention or honorable result. I try to apologize
immediate> ly and publicly when I'm merely insulting.
>
> This, however, was something different, and I'd like to address my
offlist
> correspondent in explaining why I wrote what I wrote:
>
> The question came from either the real Donovan J. Arnold of UI student
gove> rnment fame or a cadre of Dono-Wannabes using his identity to engage
in
deb> ate without the backbone to so -- and I believe that to be the case,
based
> on similarities in these and in the literary canon of Edna Wilmington,
Shir> ley Pissedoff, etc., all puppets masterfully engaged by our
skylarking
Defe> nders of All Things Kirk. Also, I'm
> pretty familiar with Donovan's rhetoric and style; this doesn't seem to
be> the guy I sparred with during the bond campaign. Either way, though,
the
> question bothered me in its quasi-innocence? Why -- the plaintive
question> er wants to know -- are we all so interested in the ethnic,
sexual,
religio> us demographic of an Interfaith group meeting? Can't we all just
get
along> , or something like that?
>
> But it's the "real" Donovan who has rudely treated people who are
different> from him, whether by one of the above demographic categories
or by
holding> to political or religious views, perhaps informed by those
demographics,
t> hat he disagrees with. He's made it an issue. Further, if today's
questio> ner is a Kirk defender (The Artist Formerly Known As Edna?), then
he is a
d> efender of a religio-political movement that thinks gender, race,
religion,> sexual orientation and political beliefs are valid --
necessary --
divisor> s in society. No
> one could defend the Confederacy, call for the Southern states to secede
f> rom the Union, fly a Confederate flag, and explain slavery as a benefit
to
> black families and seriously be expected to be seen as a "race-neutral"
soc> ial thinker. Few cling as mightily to "hard" ideas of male headship
and
fe> male submission in the church and family, and someday in millennial
society> , as the all-male eldership of Christ Church. I don't know of
any other
g> roup that publishes writings that approve of death-by-stoning of
homosexual> s once they themselves are in control of society, and I've
rarely read
more> smug vitriol directed against liberals than that produced by the
paleo-con> servative, Deo-Libertarian, paleo-Confederates of Anselm
House. Remember
"> liberal women are ugly," anyone?
>
> But regardless of the true identity of the author of the original
question,> that person is indisputably a white male, and I find it more
than a
little> annoying when white guys
> who trade in social division and benefit from it expect to be taken
seriou> sly when they ask why, by golly, are some of us so dang wrapped up
in the
g> ender, race, orientation stuff. It's simple. We like it when someone
othe> r than "you" (or my sons, my dad, or my husband) advance in
society.
>
> It's really that simple, if a bit sarcastic.
>
> Keely
>
>
>
>
> Windows Live SkyDrive lets you share files with faraway friends.
Start
> sharing.
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