[Vision2020] The Fetus is Not a Baby and is not a Person

[keely emerinemix]

"Joedus"?????  Well, Donovan, that's a little less than charitable, don'tcha think?  But I'm pretty sure that you're not really Donovan, and I believe I detect the ineffably snotty voice of Chris Witmer . . . 

If I'm wrong about the identity of the "faux Donovan," I'm nonetheless curious as to why these brave Christian men don't use their real names when fighting their version of the good fight.  Masquerading as Donovan or keeping Farris on a short leash seems a little less than manly to me . . . 

Keely



Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:48:36 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: joekc at adelphia.net
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com; nielsen at uidaho.edu
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Fetus is Not a Baby and is not a Person

Joedus,     I thought you were a Christian? If so, then you know that God sacrificed his own flesh to show how much He loved the people he created. He is sinned against.      Best Regards,     Donovan

Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:  Dalovan,

So God is not all powerful? He is a victim, able to be taken over by mere 
humans? There was nothing He could have done about it?

-- The Devil's Advocate

---- Donovan Arnold wrote: 

=============
Chas,

Humans have free will. They were the ones that choose and did the torturing. Humans are the ones that demanded the sacrifice. I don't think God was to blame. 

You just were talking to me earlier about the fallacies of thinking,
 that if you cannot see it, it must not be there. I think this is the case with you. You don't physically see God, so you don't believe in him, and you don't see the situation, so you disagree with the solution. 

God sacrificed himself , his own flesh, for you, not because he was a fool, but because it was the ultimate sacrifice, and the only one that humans could understand and see. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

Best Regards,

Donovan

Chas wrote:
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Donovan Arnold
wrote:

> God is the big prick when we were the ones that tortured and made his Son
> suffer? Something is messed up with that reasoning.

If I planned to have my children tortured, then I would be a big
prick, even if I arranged for Guido to do the actual torturing. Heck,
I would even have an excuse, being a mortal creature with limited
understanding. But God supposedly knows everything, and the
 best plan
he could come up with for our redemption involved the torture of his
only son.

But there is no way that I'm ever going to convince you, nor you me,
so we should probably table this conversation. Note that I find it an
interesting topic, but it causes passions to run unacceptably high. I
love the message of Jesus, but I dislike the attached mythology. I
try to live by Christ's precepts, and it pains me that I always fail.
However, I partly blame the magical edifice. The edifice always seems
to get in the way of the message.

Chas



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