[Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate

Mon May 5 07:36:53 PDT 2008

At this point, I'd actually like to begin hearing again from the real Donovan.  This guy's getting to be a bit too much . . . 

Keely

Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 00:49:55 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: ophite at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate

Andreas,     Thanks for the lecture. I was not born rich. I never was rich. I am poor, and it is in good part due to a disability I didn't create, nurture, choose, or can be cured or fixed. I am college educated, but who isn't from Moscow, Idaho. My religious beliefs have nothing to do with wealth.       You see no irony in the fact that you argue that people here illegally cannot get access to goods and services because it is illegal to do so?      By your logic, there are no illegals here either because it is illegal for them to be here.      Illegal laborers are here in the United States, Andreas. They are here. They get CDLs, they get food stamps, they get welfare checks, they get medical services, legal services, low income housing, and a host of other US taxpayer supported services. You can look up all the laws and rules that you
 want saying it isn't so, but it is happening.      Guess what else? When you introduce 12 million + illegal laborers into the country you reduce and suppress wages, hurting law abiding citizens trying to earn a livable wage.      You also shut down honest businesses that want to pay decent wages but cannot because the dishonest businesses can sell for less utilizing slave labor.      I am opposed to Mexican Consulates not because they increase trade with Mexico, or because they provide services and rights to people, but because they enable and attract illegal laborers to the cities and areas they are located. I don't want Idaho swarming with more illegal laborers willing to work for lower wages than Idaho workers need to make to live in the state year round. I don't want them tapping Idaho schools of its limited resources and draining our welfare support. Because that is what
 happens when a Mexican Consulate comes to town.      "So the target changes every week. Immigrants. People who are
insufficiently patriotic. Opponents of Wal-Mart. Liberals. Me. The
universe conspires to deny you the success which you feel entitled."     Nope, I love immigrants. I just dislike illegal labor. I don't dislike insufficiently patriotic people, just people that swear allegiance to another country besides the USA and live here, I don't dislike opponents of Wal-Mart, just the ill-informed, Not liberals, just radical liberals.      Now why do you want to be a lawyer? Don't you think there is enough pain, injustice, and agony in the world not to be deliberately adding to it? Did you know if the US donated all its surplus lawyers to every third world country we would end all starvation and poverty?         Best
 Regards,     Donovan     

Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com> wrote:  > Illegal immigrants access food stamps because of their children and low
> income. They also tap out the system because they force US citizens out of
> their jobs that do qualify.

The point being that since 1996, it's illegal for undocumented
immigrants to do so. There may be underage US citizens in undocumented
families -- and undocumented immigrants can access food stamps on
those children's behalf -- but it's illegal for non-US citizens to do
so on their own behalf. I worked in a welfare office for three years.
I know these things.

Or, instead, you could read the USDA's own requirements. Here they are:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/Rules/Memo/02/POLIMGRT.HTM

>
 There are, in fact, many illegal aliens driving around the US. They even
> have commercial driver's licenses hauling hazardous materials and don't read
> a lick of English.

Sure. They're driving. But they don't have licenses. And if they have
CDLs, they also have fraudulent papers, as there is no state in the
Union willing to issue drivers' licenses to undocumented immigrants.

This is a separate issue: a criminal issue.

> "Illegal immigrants cannot receive Medicaid, Medicare, or CHIP, unless
> the state has decided to offer those services out of their own tax"
>
> Never said they did. But some government officials don't always follow the
> rules.

These three categories fill the entire set of "medical benefits,"
which you claimed that illegal immigrants can access. They cannot.
You're being disingenuous.

> "The alternative being a perpetual generational underclass of itinerant
>
 farmworkers."

So, right. After spending eighteen years in the United States, and not
being able to prove themselves a Mexican citizen, you expect that
every child of illegal immigrant farmworkers is going to drive
themselves back to Mexico -- a place they've never been,a nd where
they don't know anyone -- and cli

>
> "You mean Medicare and Social Security? Illegal immigrants are required
> to pay taxes for both, but receive neither."
>
> Those aren't entitlements. Not every US citizen is entitled to them.

Medicare and Social Security are the definition of entitlement
programs. Every US citizen is entitled to access them when they reach
the age of 65.

Or (for instance) you could read the definition of the term you just
used. You can either (a) learn to use Google, or (b) find it here:
http://www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/entitlement_program.

> Check your head if you if seriously think
 thousands of illegal immigrants
> visit a Mexican Consulate everyday to get an ID card that would be as
> worthless as you pretend it to be. Or if you don't think that people here
> illegally are not overrunning our tax supported social services and
> educational system. WAKE UP ANDREAS, take a trip to El Paso, LA, or Phoenix,
> or just a day trip to Nampa. Your view is only acceptable to those that have
> lived in a university classroom, cave, or a courtroom their whole life. Peek
> outside into the REAL world for once and see what's going on.

Sure. I'm a law student now.

But before that, I spent a decade, in various positions, helping
people -- not immigrants, but regular born-and-bred US citizens --
access the government's various social service programs. This was my
job, for which I got paid a princely $20-something-thousand per year.
I know something about what you're talking about, and my
 experience
does not at all jibe with the dump-trucks full of free money you seem
to think that people on the dole get every week.

On a more meta level, I've come to one of two conclusions:

(1) That you are Mirror Universe's Andreas. That you look exactly like
me (except with a goatee) and take the opposite position on every
possible issue only because you are made of antimatter. In that case,
I apologize for ragging on ou. This is in your nature, and you can't
help it.

Suggestion: shave the goatee.

(2) That your political philosophy pulls the worst aspects of both
liberalism and conservatism, demanding a universe with the sole
purpose of aggrandizing you.

You come from a rich family. You have a college education. You're a
white Christian dude. You have had every opportunity to succeed. You
were born with a silver spoon stuck in your mouth, and -- somehow --
you managed to spit it out. Now you
 narcissistically demand that the
universe provide for you in the manner to which you wish to become
accustomed. When it fails to do so (and it apparently has) it is
merely because resources are being inefficiently allocated to people
that aren't you.

So the target changes every week. Immigrants. People who are
insufficiently patriotic. Opponents of Wal-Mart. Liberals. Me. The
universe conspires to deny you the success which you feel entitled.

Bad news. You're not. You're just like everyone else: bad things
happen to you for no good reason, and it's only human activity -- the
most important of which being your own -- that produces justice. So
get to the back of the line. Just like everyone else.

-- ACS

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