[Vision2020] Of, By & 4
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 7 20:04:08 PST 2008
"You're RIGHT! We should require an IQ test before letting anyone in who would suppress freedom of thought."--Don Edwards
I never said that. I do believe though that intelligence tests should screen out some recruits for the military, including this guy who doesn't understand "Freedom of Religion" and twists it to mean something else.
"No one really has any answers but what they believe, which is unprovable and equal to anyone Else's answers."
Equal in what manner? People are equal to practice their religion, but that doesn't mean all religions are equal. Because we all agree they are NOT.
"I felt it was a very dangerous idea for our military to even come anywhere close to being perceived as supporting any religion when our nation was founded on the ideal that everyone is equally valid in their religious quest."
I think it is imperative that our nation support religion, just not one over another.
"The article seemed to imply that only fundamentalist Christians are valid, which has bothered me before when reading about that video game depicting wartime Christians being rewarded for killing all others and when seeing 60 minutes or something last year that showed the religious recruitment for only Christians being supported by the military which was serving to separate the soldiers within their own camps. The fundie's were allowed to distribute propaganda all over the camps and make the rest feel inferior. "Be like us or be outcast because we are the only one who has ALL the answers" is not what America is supposed to be about."
This is a load of crap. First of all, Catholics, not fundamentalists, are the dominate religion in the military. Second, your use of the term "Fundi" just shows your intolerance of others beliefs in God. Finally, most Christians, Jews, and Muslims, do not force or push their religion on others. I have a VERY difficult time believing that every one every where in the military is forced to follow the beliefs of one minority religion. I don't buy that argument.
What I see is a guy that has zero respect for the beliefs of his fellow soldiers, and because of that lack of respect, he didn't get a leadership position that he thinks he is entitled to have.
I don't think this guy understands or respects people or the government which he is suing.
You are accepting this guy's allegations with no facts to back up anything he is saying or claiming. Nobody else is backing this guy's remarks except his lawyers. Why would a guy want to lead a bunch of fundamentalists for an organization he is suing? Something is amiss.
Best Regards,
Donovan
Making people feel like they're fighting a crusade for a Holy Jihad, I mean HolyWar from a country that is supposed to support Freedom of Religion is not right. We all know it was really just a cover to steal control over oil by a failed oil tycoon in the White House whose also a huge religious hypocrite. He got the fundie's to support his false causes & vote for him though. Lined his pockets with money and blood in the process though. What's the good book say about that now?
Don
donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com> wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Well, I seem to have opened another can-o-worms overnight here.
First to Garrett who posted:
Donald writes:
"Now what was it that Garrett was saying here a few
days ago?
Could we really run out of food?"
Actually, I was saying we could run out of common
sense...
Garrett
ps I'm sure Donald was joking about what I said, but
to clarify, I was implying we will run out of cheap food...."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually Garrett, "Could we really run out of food?" Was the title to the article on MSN money, it was originally in larger bold letter's but get's converted to standard text on this forum. I posted this in support of your great post explaining how in a few short years we may wish we had our fertile ground back, I thought this article confirmed what you had been saying. I agree that peak oil will greatly increase the need for localization of where our supplies come from. I've read about this issue a few years ago when surfing www.fromthewilderness.com
I also agree with what you said about tomatos flying thousands of miles being tasteless. I was convinced of this last harvest when I found that a nice, ripe local grown tomato bursts with flavors I had forgotten about until recently returning to Idaho and frequenting The Farmer's Market. My intro line was sarcasm toward those who would argue with the Pope about the sky not being blue even if it slapped them in the face and turned them into a Smurfy Smurf.
Next to Donovan:
You're RIGHT! We should require an IQ test before letting anyone in who would suppress freedom of thought. No one really has any answers but what they believe, which is unprovable and equal to anyone else's answers.
I felt it was a very dangerous idea for our military to even come anywhere close to being perceived as supporting any religion when our nation was founded on the ideal that everyone is equally valid in their religious quest. The article seemed to imply that only fundamentalist christians are valid, which has bothered me before when reading about that video game depicting wartime christians being rewarded for killing all others and when seeing 60 minutes or something last year that showed the religious recruitment for only chritians being supported by the military which was serving to seperate the soldiers within their own camps. The fundie's were allowed to distribute propaganda all over the camps and make the rest feel inferior. "Be like us or be outcast because we are the only one who has ALL the answers" is not what America is supposed to be about.
Making people feel like they're fighting a crusade for a Holy Jihad, I mean HolyWar from a country that is supposed to support Freedom of Religion is not right. We all know it was really just a cover to steal control over oil by a failed oil tycoon in the White House whose also a huge religious hypocrite. He got the fundie's to support his false causes & vote for him though. Lined his pockets with money and blood in the process though. What's the good book say about that now?
Don
> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 33
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 05:40:35 -0800
>
> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the peop (Chasuk)
> 2. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the peop (Donovan Arnold)
> 3. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the peo (Chasuk)
> 4. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the peo (Donovan Arnold)
> 5. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the pe (Chasuk)
> 6. Audio of Hawkins Panel & City Council Discussion of Employee
> Insurance available on KRFP website (KRFP)
> 7. The UI Friday Letter for March 7, 2008 (Tom Hansen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:32:16 -0800
> From: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the peop
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID:
> <ef6f41de0803062132l2ca70282ge2ffecf4843e986f at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Donovan Arnold
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Who do you think?
>
> Well, I'm hoping Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, but I have misinterpreted you
> in the past, so I thought it might behoove me to ask for
> clarification.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:24:50 -0800 (PST)
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the peop
> To: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <85354.60931.qm at web38106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Certainly not Welborn.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Donovan Arnold
> wrote:
>
> > Who do you think?
>
> Well, I'm hoping Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, but I have misinterpreted you
> in the past, so I thought it might behoove me to ask for
> clarification.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:36:49 -0800
> From: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the peo
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID:
> <ef6f41de0803062236x30a8a2c9r8eb301e058f19a0e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Donovan Arnold
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Certainly not Welborn.
>
> Okay. This appears to leave only Hall, which perplexes me. What
> would your particular gripe be with the victim? Usually, we
> sympathize with the oppressed.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:55:52 -0800 (PST)
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the peo
> To: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <144279.23930.qm at web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Chas,
>
> My sympathy is with the victim, which is the US taxpayer having to deal with frivolous lawsuits for things that ultimately serve no purpose.
>
> The reason that other soldiers are allowed to meet with religious leaders isn't for a hobby. It is because at any moment they could be meeting their Maker. So they see a religious leader to prepare for that event, last rites and preparing for the end of this life.
>
> It is not to have a community meeting, play golf, bingo, eat donuts and discuss the stupidity of those that think there is a super being floating on a cloud. Atheists don't need to make amends with God, because they don't believe in one.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Donovan Arnold
> wrote:
>
> > Certainly not Welborn.
>
> Okay. This appears to leave only Hall, which perplexes me. What
> would your particular gripe be with the victim? Usually, we
> sympathize with the oppressed.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 23:58:07 -0800
> From: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID:
> <ef6f41de0803062358g54d9127wcf2affcd043e158a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Donovan Arnold
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > My sympathy is with the victim, which is the US taxpayer having to deal with
> > frivolous lawsuits for things that ultimately serve no purpose.
>
> > The reason that other soldiers are allowed to meet with religious leaders
> > isn't for a hobby. It is because at any moment they could be meeting their
> > Maker. So they see a religious leader to prepare for that event, last rites
> > and preparing for the end of this life.
>
> Soldiers (military personnel in general) aren't "allowed" to meet with
> religious leaders -- it's a right they exercise just like you do, no
> strings attached. There is no permission involved, which is what
> you seem to be be implying. If this isn't your implication, then nip
> my missaprehension in the bud.
>
> > It is not to have a community meeting, play golf, bingo, eat donuts and
> > discuss the stupidity of those that think there is a super being floating on
> > a cloud.
>
> Some military attend worship services officiated by chaplains, some
> attend "normal" services. There isn't any rule. Chaplains work
> stateside and abroad, during war and during peace. They do indeed get
> involved in social activities with their congregation, including golf,
> bingo, eating donuts, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies, where
> atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, Buddhism, and all variety of belief
> are discussed, much like in "normal" religious communities.
>
> Most the time, military aren't actually in any more jeopardy of
> meeting their maker than an average civilian. But the chaplains don't
> close up shop. The still spread the gospel -- usually in a fairly
> low-key, ecumical way -- and hosting bingo parties, donut and coffee
> klatches, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies.
>
> Atheists don't need to make amends with God, because they don't
> > believe in one.
>
> Correct. But their freedom to commingle still shouldn't be curtailed,
> which is what the lawsuit was ultimately about. Stop atheists from
> commingling, and next they will stop Mormons, Seven Day Adventists,
> Jehovah's Witnesses, and members of any minority belief system that
> the status quo regard with suspicion or distaste.
>
> As a non-theist, I know how comforting it can be to associate with
> others of my kind, especially when struggling in a high stress
> environment. When I was sitting in Taif, Saudi Arabia, far from my
> wife and children, uncertain when, or if, I would return, fellowship
> would have been nice.
>
> Did you know that there were many converts to Islam during Desert
> Storm and Desert Shield? A few of the converts were white, but most
> were black. Standing in line at the chow hall, waiting for my portion
> of forbidden pork, suddenly the black airman who had eaten pork on
> Monday wasn't eating it on Tuesday. Surreptitious prayer mats
> appeared. This was pre-9/11, but Islam was even then perceived with
> alarm by many of the Christian community on Taif. Still, atheists
> were a lower species.
>
> Some people are non-theists for the wrong reasons. Some become
> non-theists out of anger, out of petulance, or out of the desire to
> shock. Quite a few, however, become non-theists after a long
> struggle, and end up as non-theists as prisoners of their own
> conscience. These people don't adopt non-theism casually, any more
> than most people would take on leprosy casually.
>
> So the fellowship of one's peers is arguably doubly important to a
> non-believer. We are in a hostile environment regardless of our
> physical location. There is hyperbole involved here, but not much.
>
> Three cheers to Spc. Jeremy Hall for standing up for me, and others
> like me. I count him as a "true" American, who understands what he
> has sworn to protect from firsthand experience.
>
> Chas
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:53:42 -0800
> From: KRFP <krfp at radiofreemoscow.org>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Audio of Hawkins Panel & City Council Discussion
> of Employee Insurance available on KRFP website
> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <47D0F486.8070009 at radiofreemoscow.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> For those of you interested, download away. We'll air them on the FM as
> well when we get a chance.
>
> http://audio.radiofreemoscow.org/
>
> --Leigh
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 13:40:34 GMT
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] The UI Friday Letter for March 7, 2008
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <200803071340.m27DeYx1057160 at mail-gw.fsr.net>
>
> Copied and pasted below is the UI Friday Letter for March 7, 2008.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> University of Idaho
> Office of the President
> Moscow, Idaho 83844-3151
> Phone: 208-885-6365
> Fax: 208-885-6558
>
> The Friday Letter
> A Newsletter for University of Idaho Alumni and Friends
> March 7, 2008
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> I am pleased to announce the appointment of a new vice president for
> research at the University of Idaho. Dr. John (Jack) McIver is an
> internationally known physicist whose research has focused on laser
> technology. He has keen science and technology insights and a proven
> ability to develop and harness the power of interdisciplinary research - a
> core value and strength of the University of Idaho, and an area in which
> we must invest new energy, ideas and rigor. Jack also has experience
> working with national laboratories, and a strong sense of how to
> facilitate the research and creative activities in professional colleges,
> as well as in the letters, arts and social sciences.
>
> Our vice president for research provides strategic and operational
> leadership to the University of Idaho's research engine. Jack will oversee
> all research policies and procedures, technology transfer, economic
> development and regulatory compliance; lead our Research Office, including
> the Office of Sponsored Research; and oversee the University's research
> institutes and facilities statewide.
>
> Jack currently serves as interim vice president for research and economic
> development at the University of New Mexico. There, he has championed
> interdisciplinary research efforts that blend hard sciences and
> engineering, but also has worked to develop potential research projects
> that combine the fine arts with areas of science and technology. Other
> credentials include the European Office of Aerospace Research and
> Development in London, where he was a liaison officer with the U.S. Air
> Force working on lasers and opto-electronics; and the P.N. Lebedev
> Physical Institute of the Academy of Sciences of the U.S.S.R., in Moscow,
> where he was a National Academy of Sciences exchange scientist.
>
> Jack's achievements in research innovation, peer reviewed publications,
> teaching and competitive grantsmanship, coupled with his management of a
> high-activity research environment, bring ideal experiences and
> aspirations to lead the University of Idaho's research and scholarship
> enterprise to new heights. He will be a strong and visible spokesperson
> for this mission-related aspect of the University around the state and
> nation.
>
> Jack takes the reins from Dr. John Tracy, to whom we are indebted for very
> capably serving a year-long interim appointment as vice president for
> research. John will return full time to his directorship of the Idaho
> Water Resources Research Institute. Thank you, John, and welcome, Jack.
>
>
> Tim White
> President
>
> Here's the latest news from the University of Idaho:
>
> Three Vandals earned conference titles last weekend at the Western
> Athletic Conference indoor track and field championships. Russ Winger
> earned this third-straight title in the shot put, Heather Bergland
> defended her 60-meter hurdle title and Lucas Pope won the men's pole
> vault. Thirteen Vandals earned first-team All-WAC honors by finishing in
> the top three in their event. Five Vandals are eligible for consideration
> to compete at the NCAA Indoor Track and Field Championship meet, and the
> final field will be announced early next week.
>
> The 2008 football schedule has been announced, and Idaho will play six
> home games in the ASUI-Kibbie Activity Center. Dads' Weekend and Ag Days
> are set for October 4 and Homecoming will be celebrated on the October 25
> weekend.
>
> Aug. 30 - at Arizona
> Sept. 6 - Idaho State
> Sept. 13 - Western Michigan
> Sept. 20 - at Utah State
> Sept. 27 - at San Diego State
> Oct. 4 - Nevada - Dads' Weekend and Ag Days
> Oct. 11 - at Fresno State
> Oct. 18 - at Louisiana Tech
> Oct. 25 - New Mexico State - Homecoming
> Nov. 1 - San Jose State
> Nov. 8 - bye
> Nov. 15 - Boise State
> Nov. 22 - at Hawaii
>
> The Kibbie Dome Renovation and Expansion Project will transform the
> student experience at the University of Idaho, and a $35 million
> fundraising campaign has begun to seek support from individuals,
> corporations and foundations. One couple stepping forward to help is
> Debbie and Jack Hetherington of Twin Falls. The Hetherington family has
> pledged $100,000 that will be paid over a three-year period. "We
> definitely want to encourage others to contribute. People might think that
> they need to pledge a million or more to make a difference, but these
> smaller gifts add up quickly if we can get a bunch of them," shares Debbie
> when referring to their commitment. To make a gift or to learn more about
> the Kibbie Dome Renovation and Expansion Project, please contact Mahmood
> Sheikh, assistant athletic director for development at (208) 364-4027 or
> sheikh at uidaho.edu.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> Came a tribe from the north brave and bold . . .
>
> "Here We Have Idaho"
> http://www.tomandrodna.com/HWHI.mp3
>
> "I-D-A-H-O Idaho Idaho Go Go Go"
> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Vandals.mp3
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
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> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 33
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