[Vision2020] FW: The Nation, 6/30/08
Sunil Ramalingam
sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Wed Jul 30 12:55:31 PDT 2008
Kai,
I don't care. I get them as they are. Regardless of their choices, I look at the case against them and make decisions on that basis.
Sunil
From: editor at lataheagle.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: The Nation, 6/30/08
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:19:57 -0700
How many of your appointed clients made the
choice to abuse drugs or alcohol?
From: Sunil Ramalingam
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 12:12 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: The Nation, 6/30/08
I don't want to take anything away from Dave Thomas or Jack
Simplot in terms of their ability to thrive in our economy, particularly if they
didn't grow up with any of the advantages of coming from a wealthy family.
But if I recall correctly, Bill Gates is the son of a corporate lawyer.
Obviously he's also smart and very driven, but I think it's fair to say that
growing up upper-middle class or upper class gives a person tools and advantages
in our society.
Both my parents have post-baccalaureate degrees, and I
think all of my grandparents did too, and some of their parents as well.
Even though I spent most of my youth whizzing away - or trying to - the
headstart that gave me in life, I was still able to recover from my own
stupidity. I'm far from rich, but I'm also far from where my
appointed clients are.
Sunil
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:54:19
-0700
> From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> To: editor at lataheagle.com;
lcavener at vandals.uidaho.edu; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] FW: The Nation, 6/30/08
>
> You are absolutely right.
JacK Simplot is another good example. He had a third grade education and started
with nothing. Through his ingenuity and hard word he became one of the richest
men in Idaho.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From:
"Kai Eiselein, Editor" editor at lataheagle.com
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008
09:51:25 -0700
> To: "Levi Cavener" lcavener at vandals.uidaho.edu,
vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: The Nation,
6/30/08
>
> > Education, in itself, is not an indicator of
future wealth.
> > I believe "drive" is a far better predictor. Dave
Thomas, founder of Wendy's, was a high school drop out, Bill Gates is a college
drop out. The list can go on and on.
> > Most "new" millionaires aren't
in suit and tie professions, they are in the service trades; plumbers,
electricians, contractors, that sort of thing.
> > Using your statement
of "better" schools, I shouldn't be able to read or write very well. I should be
working a menial job somewhere, solely because I went to school in one of the
poorest school districts in Arizona and I didn't finish college. Santa Cruz
County is the smallest, and, at that time anyway, the poorest county in the
state. The city of Nogales consistently has one of the highest unemployment
rates in the nation. Drug and alcohol use in school was rampant (I had teachers
who came to class stoned), crime was high, gangs were around, although not as
prevalent as they are now. (I'm sure Keely could add comments on the view
people/students in Tucson took on Nogales.)
> > I'm not rich by any
means, but I'm not dirt poor either.
> > People who have made their own
wealth have one thing in common, the willingness to put in very long hours, to
take risks, to think outside of the norm and to doggedness to overcome
obstacles.
> > You rarely ever see them say "Poor me", even when they
fail.
> >
> >
> > From: Levi Cavener
> >
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:10 AM
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: [Vision2020] FW: The Nation, 6/30/08
> >
> >
> > "My premise is that most of those who were "haves"
before the distribution
> > > would manage to accumulate wealth,
becoming "haves" again.
> > > Of those who were "have nots" before
the distribution, most would become
> > > "have nots"
again."
> >
> > But think about the reason why the previously
wealthy would once again become wealthy. Before the redistribution the wealthy
could afford whatever tools they needed (including tools for their children)
such as access to better schools (I'm not dismissing the public school system,
just saying that an elite private school is likely to produce a better education
than the public system could), access to higher and continuing education for
both themselves and their children, as well as previous on the job experience
and knowledge for jobs that pay more such as experience in being a CEO of a
company. Compare this in contrast to the previous "have-nots" who hypothetically
just had wealth redistributed. Upon the redistribution they have no tools or
background experience to advance from aside from working a low level job in the
service industry. Even if they were to pursue the tools they need to get a job
that pays more than the job they previous had by such means as getting
an
> education or internships they already start at a disadvantage because
the previously wealthy already possess all these tools. As a result the previous
"have-nots" have to play catchup with the previously wealthy - they are the
tortoise in the race of wealth and can only win if the wealthy (hares) make a
mistake that allows them to catch up or pass them. Assuming this hypothetical
wealth redistribution did occur, who would you expect to become wealthy again? A
CEO of a fortune 500 company or a person who has been flipping burgers? Just a
thought.
> >
> >
> >
> > ~Esto
Perpetua
> >
> > Levi Cavener
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > From: editor at lataheagle.com
> > > To:
sslund_2007 at verizon.net; lfalen at turbonet.com; kjajmix1 at msn.com;
vision2020 at moscow.com; thansen at moscow.com
> > > Date: Tue, 29 Jul
2008 13:07:37 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Nation,
6/30/08
> > >
> > > As usual, Tom, fails to grasp the
conversation and tries comparing apples to
> > > oranges.
>
> > I will simplify it for him.
> > > Tom, a complete wealth
distribution would begin with everyone on equal
> > > financial
footing. Over time, the finances of some would improve while for
> >
> others it would decline.
> > > My premise is that most of those
who were "haves" before the distribution
> > > would manage to
accumulate wealth, becoming "haves" again.
> > > Of those who were
"have nots" before the distribution, most would become
> > > "have
nots" again.
> > > It is a completely different scenario than your
"stimulus check" example, in
> > > which there is no "equal
footing" financially.
> > >
> > > Got it?
> >
>
> > >
--------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Tom
Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29,
2008 12:36 PM
> > > To: <editor at lataheagle.com>;
<sslund_2007 at verizon.net>;
> > > <lfalen at turbonet.com>;
<kjajmix1 at msn.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Nation, 6/30/08
> > >
> >
> > By Kai's commentary, the stimulus checks distributed these past few
months
> > > > must have created one MAJOR spark in the
economy.
> > > >
> > > > Surprise, Kai. It has
been shown by surveys and a multitude of analyses
> > > > that
the "have nots" have used their stimulus checks on such frivolous
> >
> > items as food, rent, and bills, while the "haves" . . . well . . .
you
> > > > know.
> > > >
> > > >
Your thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > Tom Hansen
>
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > > >
> > > >>
Human nature is human nature.
> > > >> Chances are, most of
the "have nots" would blow their windfall
> > > >
purchasing
> > > >> things they could have never afforded
before.
> > > >> Without thinking of the future, many people
would blow right through it.
> > > >> Once gone, they would
wind up selling many of the things they purchased
> > > >>
because they didn't save any of it for neccesities.
> > > >>
Many of the "haves" would see opportunities and try to make the most of
>
> > >> their windfall, gaining wealth.
> > > >> It
has nothing to do with the "worst" or "best" in humans. It's just the
>
> > > way
> > > >> it is.
> > >
>>
> > > >>
--------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>
> > > >>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:51 AM
> > > >> To: "'Kai
Eiselein, Editor'" <editor at lataheagle.com>; "'lfalen'"
> > >
>> <lfalen at turbonet.com>; "'keely emerinemix'"
<kjajmix1 at msn.com>;
> > > >>
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >> Subject: RE:
[Vision2020] The Nation, 6/30/08
> > > >>
> > >
>> > Yes, of course I read it -- did you read the 6/30 The Nation
issue
> > > > Keely
> > > >> > mentioned in
starting this topic?
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> I disagree with the hypothetical conclusion in your hypothetical
>
> > > scenario.
> > > >> > I also don't agree with
the inherent assumption of the worst of
> > > > humans --
>
> > >> > you sound almost Hobbesian. Sorry for not making that
clear. To
> > > > expand .
> > > >> >
.
> > > >> > .
> > > >> >
> >
> >> > I think the odds are good that in a wealth redistribution
that some of
> > > > the
> > > >> > "have
nots" would cherish the change, manage the money well, and truly
> >
> >> > remember from whence they came. In a wealth redistribution, I
think
> > > > the
> > > >> > odds are good
some of the previous "haves" would have no eye to the
> > > >
future
> > > >> > and would soon be penniless . . . and
need assistance.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
The difference in my hypothetical scenario & yours is that there are
>
> > > so
> > > >> > many
> > >
>> > more "have nots" than "haves" that the eventual distribution of
the
> > > >> > redistribution would be better for the
greater good and a net gain in
> > > >> > quality of life
for more. I'm not willing to assume the worst in a
> > > >>
> hypothetical based on the self-serving historical behavior of some
of
> > > > the
> > > >> > "haves" and their
failure to consider a common good and their fellow
> > > >>
> countrymen.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
I like to think we'd have no need to redistribute wealth if we each
> >
> > helped
> > > >> > our sisters and brothers,
mothers and fathers, daughters and sons to
> > > >> >
improve
> > > >> > their lots in life to the best of our
abilities rather than just what
> > > > we
> > >
>> > think they deserve. Nor would we likely need government safety
nets
> > > > for
> > > >> > so
> >
> >> > many of our unfortunate were it not for the greed of the
"haves."
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
Altruistic Pollyanna is a name I'm far more comfortable wearing than
>
> > > Cynic
> > > >> > Assuming Greed Trumps
Good.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
>
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >>
> From: Kai Eiselein, Editor [mailto:editor at lataheagle.com]
> > >
>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:01 AM
> > > >>
> To: Saundra Lund; 'lfalen'; 'keely emerinemix';
vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
The Nation, 6/30/08
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> Did you or did you not read my hypothetical scenario?
> > >
>> >
> > > >> >
--------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>
> > >
>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:56 AM
> > > >>
> To: "'Kai Eiselein, Editor'" <editor at lataheagle.com>;
"'lfalen'"
> > > >> > <lfalen at turbonet.com>; "'keely
emerinemix'" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>;
> > > >> >
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >> > Subject: RE:
[Vision2020] The Nation, 6/30/08
> > > >> >
> >
> >> >> Kai wrote:
> > > >> >> "I would
venture to hypothesize this: If wealth were distributed
> > > >
equally
> > > >> >> to
> > > >>
>> every person, it would only be a matter of time before there would
be
> > > > the
> > > >> >> "haves" and
"have nots" once again."
> > > >> >>
> > >
>> >> Good grief -- what do you mean "once again"?!?! That's how
things
> > > > are
> > > >> >>
now
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>
.
> > > >> >> . . hello!
> > > >>
>>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
Saundra Lund
> > > >> >> Moscow, ID
> > >
>> >>
> > > >> >> The only thing necessary
for the triumph of evil is for good people
> > > > to do
>
> > >> >> nothing.
> > > >> >> ~
Edmund Burke
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008
through
> > > > life
> > > >> >>
plus
> > > >> >> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy,
forward, excerpt, or reproduce
> > > >> >>
outside
> > > >> >> the Vision 2020 forum without the
express written permission of the
> > > >> >>
author.*****
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
>>
> > > >> >>
> > > >>
>>
> > > >> > Kai Eiselein
> > > >>
> Editor, Latah Eagle
> > > >> >
> > >
>> >
> > > >> Kai Eiselein
> > > >>
Editor, Latah Eagle
> > > >>
> > > >>
=======================================================
> > >
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >
>> http://www.fsr.net
> > > >>
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >>
=======================================================
> > >
>>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
>
> > > students are not very active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."
> > > >
> > > > - Dale Courtney
(March 28, 2007)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------
> > > > This
message was sent by First Step Internet.
> > > >
http://www.fsr.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> Kai Eiselein
> > > Editor, Latah Eagle
> > >
> > >
=======================================================
> > > List
services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >
=======================================================
> >
>
>
> >
> >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
> >
=======================================================
> > List
services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
>
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
=======================================================
> > Kai
Eiselein
> > Editor, Latah Eagle
> >
>
>
=======================================================
> List services
made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the
Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
>
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>
=======================================================
=======================================================
List
services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
Kai Eiselein
Editor, Latah
Eagle
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080730/c291a722/attachment-0001.html
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list