[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: One Lawyer With A Spine...

[lfalen]

Paul
I of course do not know what the right estimates are. Other sources do not list them as this high. The truth is probably somewhere in between. I am interested in saving the lives of Americans, whether it be a battle field attack or a terrorist attack.
I think that justifies something more than the interrogation of a murder suspect after the alleged act. I think that is the high road. To allow people to be killed when it could be prevented is the low road. There is a big difference  in interrogating someone after an act and trying to prevent something in the future. Some of the reports I have read say that those at GITMO are treated better that at the Ohio State Pen. Again I am against physical torture. Other methods should be ok. I am not sure just what they are.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:04:22 -0700
To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Vision2020] One Lawyer With A Spine...

> How would you have any idea whether or not the estimates are correct?  
> I'll bet even the people stationed at Gitmo don't really know.
> 
> Why don't we just simply take the high road and say that no 
> interrogation techniques not suitable for a murder suspect that will be 
> going to trial are not to be used?  We're not talking about someone with 
> the codes to the nuclear bomb buried under the center of the city that 
> is going to go off in twenty minutes if they don't disarm it.
> 
> Paul
> 
> lfalen wrote:
> > Ralph
> > I am sure that there are some innocent people at Gitmo, but I think those estimates are overblown. I think there probably has been some waterboarding of some 9/11 suspects.I don't think there has been any  forms of physical torture used. There has been several independent reviews of what is going on at Gitmo. These reports say that the prisoner are treated vary well. They are allowed recreation time and there religion is respected. They are allowed 5 20 minute breaks er day to pray as they see fit. The U.S. personnel on the other hand are not given time off to practice their religion.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Ralph Nielsen nielsen at uidaho.edu
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:29:16 -0700
> > To: Ellen Roskovich gussie443 at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] One Lawyer With A Spine...
> >
> >   
> >> You misunderstand me. I was saying that waterboaading was called  
> >> torture by the Inquisition, so how can any decent person call it  
> >> anything else today?
> >>
> >> As Jane Mayer has just pointed out in her interview on Fresh Air, at  
> >> least a third of the Gitmo prisoners are probably innocent of any  
> >> crime at all. But if  higher powers want a confession, they will be  
> >> given a confession. Plus �a change, plus c'est la meme chose.
> >>
> >> Ralph
> >>
> >>     
> >>> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:27:10 -0700
> >>> From: starbliss at gmail.com
> >>> To: nielsen at uidaho.edu; ophite at gmail.com
> >>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> Subject: [Vision2020] One Lawyer With A Spine...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Nielsen and Schou, don't you have a common foe upon which to focus  
> >>> your intellectual talents, rather than wasting energy over minutiae?
> >>>
> >>> Christianity has its share of blood on its hands, along with  
> >>> numerous Utopian ideologies (read John Grey's "Apocalyptic Religion  
> >>> and The Death of Utopia"), from Egypt to Rome to the Incas, the  
> >>> British Empire to Stalin's Communism, Hitler's National Socialism,  
> >>> Mao's China, to the manifest destiny of the religion of modern  
> >>> multinational capitalism, perhaps best expressed in the invasion of  
> >>> Iraq by W. Bush... But the most shocking example of absolute and  
> >>> pure evil incarnate is surely (tongue-in-cheek alert) to be found  
> >>> in the legal profession, throughout history acting as endowed and  
> >>> pampered sophisticated verbal and logical apologist for the most  
> >>> heartless and horrendous crimes in history.  At least the lawyer  
> >>> referenced below in the US has the guts to call it as it is,  
> >>> publicly, with risk to life and livelihood, redeeming the elitist  
> >>> conformist ersatz gold gilded self serving self righteous pomposity  
> >>> of many in this profession (Sunil excepted, of course) :
> >>>
> >>> http://www.amazon.com/Prosecution-George-W-Bush-Murder/dp/159315481X
> >>>
> >>> The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder (Hardcover)
> >>> by Vincent Bugliosi (Author)
> >>>
> >>>       
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>