[Vision2020] FW: on ordaining women

[Levi Cavener]

Keely - agreed.

I wasn't trying to bash organized religion, rather just trying to point out Doug isn't alone in his belief. And just like you said, what separates Doug from the rest of the community is a little something called tolerance and acceptance even if it means just having to agree to disagree.  Doug lacks this entirely, which is sad because it is that very acceptance and tolerance from the rest of the community  that allows him to use Moscow as his home base, even if the community thinks that he is a bully and a bigot.  Best wishes, and sorry if I ruffled any feathers.


~Esto Perpetua

 

Levi Cavener

 



From: kjajmix1 at msn.com
To: lcavener at vandals.uidaho.edu; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] on ordaining women
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 10:03:38 -0700









Yeah, Levi, you're right -- it isn't just Doug Wilson who denies that Scripture permits female ordination. 

Most evangelicals do, and that goes for those in Moscow.  And I actually have great sympathy -- understanding, not pity -- for Christians who believe that way; they're reading their Bibles in a more woodenly literal, context-absent way than I do, but they do it in humility and in the honest belief that they're honoring God.  Wilson is something else.  Wilson is a mocker, a know-it-all, a bully, a bigot, and I believe the Scriptures speak of men like him, "these men (who) speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct . . . these are the very things that destroy them."  (Jude 10)

It hurts me to say these things against another human being, Levi, especially one who represents himself as a minister of the Gospel -- just like I was in the '90s and, in a different way, am now.  But Wilson's words condemn him, not mine, and in this my conscience is clear.

May the girls of Christ Church grow up knowing that marriage is great but optional; that pre-matrimonial devotion to a collection of tableware and linens is silly; and the gifts of the Holy Spirit given them must be used, for the sake of the Church and the Glory of God.  And when one of them is ordained, may I get to be there cheering her on and praising the Lord.

Keely





From: lcavener at vandals.uidaho.edu
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:45:56 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] on ordaining women







Its nice to know that all the littler girls sitting in Doug's congregation looking forward to such dreams as preaching in a holy house of their own were just brainwashed into believing that somehow their lack of male genitalia makes them inferior in every way to the other half of the population and thus can never aspire to be equal to men.  I wonder if the female members of the church enjoy being told they are unequal and being emotional beaten when they come to celebrate god with their fellow religious community?  But come on folks, it's not just Doug.  When was the last time there was a female pope?  

 

~Esto Perpetua

 

Levi Cavener

 



From: kjajmix1 at msn.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:19:30 -0700
Subject: [Vision2020] on ordaining women










Doug Wilson today on the ordination of Anglican/Episcopalian women as bishops:

"Putting on a bishop's mitre is not behaving like a woman. It is behaving like an ecclesiastical dyke."
It'll be a great day when a woman's call to Christian ministry is encouraged by the church when proved authentic by the Fruit of the Spirit within her, and a male minister can't rest on gender superiority when he consistently produces pastoral fruit unbecoming to the faith.  I question the pastoral call of a man who mocks his Christian sisters solely on the basis of their pursuit of ordination in a historic Christian denomination.  These women remain accountable to their denominations.  They don't run off and form new ones that guarantee that they and their best buddies will prosper, and they figure that genitalia and gender do not a minister make -- or break.  

If maleness qualifies Wilson for ministry, surely vitriol and vapidity should disqualify him.  There is no "father hunger" so great as to warrant his continued presence in the pulpit, much less his continued identification as a Christian minister.

Keely








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