[Vision2020] Churches

Mon Jan 21 21:21:04 PST 2008

I shall hereby install myself as Bishop of the Congregation of Hope Springs Eternal in VandalLand.
All congregants shall pray to Our Lady of Fabulous and Talented Teams (AKA The FATT Lady) in hopes that she will sing the Vandal victory song.
The way things sit now, I'll have the largest church in town.> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 19, Issue 124> To: vision2020 at moscow.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:16:38 -0800> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to> vision2020 at moscow.com> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> vision2020-request at moscow.com> > You can reach the person managing the list at> vision2020-owner at moscow.com> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Snow on sidewalks .. the good news and the bad news...> (Sunil Ramalingam)> 2. Re: Snow on sidewalks .. the good news and the bad news...> (Craine Kit)> 3. Re: Public Service User Fees versus Taxation (was: Banned> From Church) (Donovan Arnold)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:20:03 -0800> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Snow on sidewalks .. the good news and the> bad news...> To: Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Message-ID: <BAY111-W26AD2C7883550B3FF85DC7BD3E0 at phx.gbl>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > > Janesta,> > I would much rather see an improved snow-removal ordinance than another noise ordinance. The concerns you state go directly to the issue of safety. > > Looking at the Coeur d'Alene ordinance, I guess I have some concerns about where duty lies in the case of shared buildings. My office is in the old Mykelbust (sp?) building, and on snowy mornings I might not make it there before 9, since I'm shoveling my own sidewalk and getting my kids to school. Some morning I'm the first building tenant there, and on other mornings someone else gets there first. I do shovel the sidewalk if it hasn't been done, but I don't go all the way down to the corner of Third and Main. I'm not sure how we go about imposing a duty on a specific tenant when there are multiple tenants in a building.> > Sunil> > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:21:31 -0800> From: janesta at gmail.com> To: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: [Vision2020] Snow on sidewalks .. the good news and the bad news...> > You know the old saying... Do you want the bad news, or good news first?> > The good news> I want to compliment the City of Moscow and Palouse Clearwater Environmental Institute in creating the "Snow Patrol". It is fantastic to witness the care and concern put forth for community members who are unable to clear their sidewalk due to age, or disability. GOOD JOB!!! If you need assistance, call 882-1444, and ask for Courtney Rush, or click on this link... > http://pcei.org/VolunteerSnow.htm . Regardless if it is snow removal, supplying food shelters with fresh produce, or caring for our environment, PCEI is there. Thank you so much!> > Now, for the bad news. It always seems to be kind of long, doesn't it?> Attempting to walk and shop downtown is a risky feat if you are healthy. Imagine if you are disabled, or elderly? A person using a wheelchair can't even GO downtown this time of year! There are many of us with hidden disabilities who must use extreme caution as well .> > When my knees were replaced eight years ago, I was advised by my orthopedic surgeon if I were to fall and break my leg, it would probably be in the middle of my shin, or above my knee, each place, (much more than you probably want to know about me!) where four screws are embedded in bone. I could very well lose my leg, or legs, as the case may be. That statement from him has sobered me to any thoughts of peaceful walks almost anywhere around town, but especially, in my beloved downtown Moscow. > > Last Thursday, for the first time in six weeks, I decided to go downtown shopping. I was very discouraged by the state of some of the sidewalks. Moscow had not received snow for several days, yet, many of the businesses still had an accumulated a mixture of snow, and dangerous ice on the ground with NO WHERE to walk that was clear. This includes the walkway in front of the fountain in Friendship Square, which at the time, only had a two foot pathway. > > Many years ago, while working as an advocate at Disability Action Center, I spoke with Police Chief Weaver regarding our snow removal ordinance. At that time, he stated the problem lies with enforcement. There are no specifics that state what time the snow needs to be removed by, nor what part of the sidewalk the business owner is responsible for, or how wide of a swath should be shoveled. Also, the policy stated once warned about snow removal, a business has 24 hours to respond. What is with Moscow and these hour requirements, such as the noise and dog barking law? If something needs to be taken care of, it needs to be dealt with ASAP! At one business I spoke with, I was advised they were only responsible for an area four feet from the building. What about the other four to six feet on to the curb? Who is responsible for that? Who is responsible for the area on the corner of Main and 6th, Main and 5th? Who is responsible sidewalks in front of a vacant building? If a lawsuit!> is filed, who pays? Would it be me, the taxpayer? Because the policy as it is written is so vague?? I guarantee you, if someone is seriously injured due to the choice of a business or the city to ignore this problem, someone will be sued. > > In the heat of summer, almost six months ago, I addressed the Mayor, and Moscow City Council about concerns regarding our disabled, and elderly community members, and the manner in which the snow removal policy was written and enforced. At that time, I was advised by Mayor Cheney the issue of changing the ordinance had been in, I believe it was, an employee committee for the previous 6-8 months. Personally, I am not sure why it takes so long to change a snow removal policy. Do what I did, Google other cities in Idaho, see what they are doing. Coeur d' Alene has an excellent policy stating a time frame for removal of snow, the fine to be issued if the policy is not followed. Also, if the fine isn't paid, a lien will be placed on the property owner's taxes. > > I recall early last fall when there was discussion of moving Farmer's Market to Main Street, and closing Main for a few hours Saturday mornings... The businesses downtown were very much against this idea, as they were concerned about parking, and losing customers. Where is that same concern for their customers now? > > I hope this ordinance is addressed by the City Council soon. It would be a shame for someone to be injured.> > Please call the Moscow Police Department at 882-5551 with your concerns. > > Thank you for listening to my rant.> > Janesta Carcich> > > Below are the basics from both Moscow, and Coeur d' Alene's websites. > >From the City of Moscow website.> http://www.moscow.id.us/Police/Snow%20Removal/Snow%20removal.htm> It shall be the duty of every owner of any land, building, or lot within the City to remove snow and/or ice from adjacent sidewalks to permit the safe pedestrian passage upon said sidewalks bordering said property and to abate the nuisance set forth in this Chapter. This duty applies to natural snowfall; it does not extend to snow displaced onto sidewalks by City snowplows after an owner has removed natural snowfall. > > > > Coeur d' Alene> http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/ID/Coeur%20dAlene/index.htm> "Every owner or occupant of any house or other building, or of any vacant lot or block, and every person having charge of any church, jail or public building within the municipal limits, shall, during the winter season and during the time snow continues on the ground, by nine o'clock (9:00) > A.M. on every day after a snowfall, and whenever necessary, clear the sidewalks in front of such lot or block, from snow and ice, and shall keep them conveniently free there from during the day, or shall, in case the snow and ice so congealed that it cannot be removed without injury to the sidewalk, cause the snow and ice to be strewed with ashes or sand. Every owner or occupant shall at all times keep such sidewalk clear and free from all filth, dirt or other obstructions or encumbrances so as to allow citizens to use the sidewalks in an easy and commodious manner."> > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080121/e99b7920/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:36:25 -0800> From: Craine Kit <kcraine at verizon.net>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Snow on sidewalks .. the good news and the> bad news...> To: Janesta <janesta at gmail.com>> Cc: Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Message-ID: <62DEF558-5685-4A62-BE0C-6648533A5403 at verizon.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed> > Moscow City Code defines ice or snow on the sidewalk as a nuisance, > period. Property owners have 24 hours to clear sidewalks adjacent to > their property AFTER being given notice, either in writing or by > having it posted on the property. After the 24 hours, the City can > issue a citation and/or clear the sidewalks and bill the property > owner. Out of courtesy, the City allows 24 hours for clearing before > starting the enforcement clock. Unfortunately, issuing notice depends > on public complaints against an address and the City may not follow > through once the time is up.> > There is a myth in this town that small amounts of snow will melt off > so people don't need to bother shoveling unless there are inches on a > sidewalk. Wrong. In our climate, even a skiff of packed snow turns > into deadly ice before nature does the clearing. Last winter, we had > about an inch of snow one day, less than an inch two days later. It > took twenty-two (22) days for the resulting packed ice to melt off. > Sidewalks that were cleared before they became packed were clear and > dry for that period.> > The only environmentally sensitive solution to this problem is a > shovel. The only humane solution to ice is chemicals. Whatever is > necessary should be used because broken bones should not be > acceptable in a community that brags about being "pedestrian friendly".> > What can you do to make Moscow's winter sidewalks safe? Take a moment > to shove snow off the sidewalk where it crosses your driveway before > you leave in the morning. Shovel the entire walk (edge to edge and to > the surface) as soon as you can. Point out to merchants that if they > want business, customers need to be able to reach their store. Report > uncleared sidewalks to the City (882-COPS). Volunteer to help someone > who can't clear their sidewalks.> > Sidewalks are part of the public right-of-way. Those who allow ice > and snow build up are obstructing everyone's right to use those > paths. That is not going to change unless the public insists on it.> > > Kit Craine> > On Jan 21, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Janesta wrote:> > > You know the old saying... Do you want the bad news, or good news > > first?> >> > The good news> > I want to compliment the City of Moscow and Palouse Clearwater > > Environmental Institute in creating the "Snow Patrol". It is > > fantastic to witness the care and concern put forth for community > > members who are unable to clear their sidewalk due to age, or > > disability. GOOD JOB!!! If you need assistance, call 882-1444, and > > ask for Courtney Rush, or click on this link... http://pcei.org/ > > VolunteerSnow.htm . Regardless if it is snow removal, supplying > > food shelters with fresh produce, or caring for our environment, > > PCEI is there. Thank you so much!> >> > Now, for the bad news. It always seems to be kind of long, doesn't it?> >> > Attempting to walk and shop downtown is a risky feat if you are > > healthy. Imagine if you are disabled, or elderly? A person using a > > wheelchair can't even GO downtown this time of year! There are many > > of us with hidden disabilities who must use extreme caution as well .> >> > When my knees were replaced eight years ago, I was advised by my > > orthopedic surgeon if I were to fall and break my leg, it would > > probably be in the middle of my shin, or above my knee, each place, > > (much more than you probably want to know about me!) where four > > screws are embedded in bone. I could very well lose my leg, or > > legs, as the case may be. That statement from him has sobered me to > > any thoughts of peaceful walks almost anywhere around town, but > > especially, in my beloved downtown Moscow.> >> > Last Thursday, for the first time in six weeks, I decided to go > > downtown shopping. I was very discouraged by the state of some of > > the sidewalks. Moscow had not received snow for several days, yet, > > many of the businesses still had an accumulated a mixture of snow, > > and dangerous ice on the ground with NO WHERE to walk that was > > clear. This includes the walkway in front of the fountain in > > Friendship Square, which at the time, only had a two foot pathway.> >> > Many years ago, while working as an advocate at Disability Action > > Center, I spoke with Police Chief Weaver regarding our snow removal > > ordinance. At that time, he stated the problem lies with > > enforcement. There are no specifics that state what time the snow > > needs to be removed by, nor what part of the sidewalk the business > > owner is responsible for, or how wide of a swath should be > > shoveled. Also, the policy stated once warned about snow removal, a > > business has 24 hours to respond. What is with Moscow and these > > hour requirements, such as the noise and dog barking law? If > > something needs to be taken care of, it needs to be dealt with > > ASAP! At one business I spoke with, I was advised they were only > > responsible for an area four feet from the building. What about the > > other four to six feet on to the curb? Who is responsible for that? > > Who is responsible for the area on the corner of Main and 6th, Main > > and 5th? Who is responsible sidewalks in front of a vacant > > building? If a lawsuit is filed, who pays? Would it be me, the > > taxpayer? Because the policy as it is written is so vague?? I > > guarantee you, if someone is seriously injured due to the choice of > > a business or the city to ignore this problem, someone will be sued.> >> > In the heat of summer, almost six months ago, I addressed the > > Mayor, and Moscow City Council about concerns regarding our > > disabled, and elderly community members, and the manner in which > > the snow removal policy was written and enforced. At that time, I > > was advised by Mayor Cheney the issue of changing the ordinance had > > been in, I believe it was, an employee committee for the previous > > 6-8 months. Personally, I am not sure why it takes so long to > > change a snow removal policy. Do what I did, Google other cities in > > Idaho, see what they are doing. Coeur d' Alene has an excellent > > policy stating a time frame for removal of snow, the fine to be > > issued if the policy is not followed. Also, if the fine isn't paid, > > a lien will be placed on the property owner's taxes.> >> > I recall early last fall when there was discussion of moving > > Farmer's Market to Main Street, and closing Main for a few hours > > Saturday mornings... The businesses downtown were very much against > > this idea, as they were concerned about parking, and losing > > customers. Where is that same concern for their customers now?> >> > I hope this ordinance is addressed by the City Council soon. It > > would be a shame for someone to be injured.> >> > Please call the Moscow Police Department at 882-5551 with your > > concerns.> >> > Thank you for listening to my rant.> >> > Janesta Carcich> >> >> > Below are the basics from both Moscow, and Coeur d' Alene's websites.> >> > From the City of Moscow website.> >> > http://www.moscow.id.us/Police/Snow%20Removal/Snow%20removal.htm> >> > It shall be the duty of every owner of any land, building, or lot > > within the City to remove snow and/or ice from adjacent sidewalks > > to permit the safe pedestrian passage upon said sidewalks bordering > > said property and to abate the nuisance set forth in this Chapter. > > This duty applies to natural snowfall; it does not extend to snow > > displaced onto sidewalks by City snowplows after an owner has > > removed natural snowfall.> >> >> >> > Coeur d' Alene> >> > http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/ID/Coeur%20dAlene/index.htm> >> > "Every owner or occupant of any house or other building, or of any > > vacant lot or block, and every person having charge of any church, > > jail or public building within the municipal limits, shall, during > > the winter season and during the time snow continues on the ground, > > by nine o'clock (9:00) A.M. on every day after a snowfall, and > > whenever necessary, clear the sidewalks in front of such lot or > > block, from snow and ice, and shall keep them conveniently free > > there from during the day, or shall, in case the snow and ice so > > congealed that it cannot be removed without injury to the sidewalk, > > cause the snow and ice to be strewed with ashes or sand. Every > > owner or occupant shall at all times keep such sidewalk clear and > > free from all filth, dirt or other obstructions or encumbrances so > > as to allow citizens to use the sidewalks in an easy and commodious > > manner."> >> > =======================================================> > List services made available by First Step Internet,> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > http://www.fsr.net> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > =======================================================> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:16:44 -0800 (PST)> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Service User Fees versus Taxation> (was: Banned From Church)> To: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com> Message-ID: <206669.78302.qm at web38110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > Chas,> > You are allowed to create any non-profit charity organization you want and not pay taxes on it. In fact, I encourage you to exercise your first amendment rights and do it. > > If you want to create the Church of Fuzzy Wuzzy Chasy Wazzy, you can, and you can not pay taxes on it too. And if someone tries to assault you in the tax free building I won't advocate you pay additional police service fees because you weren't paying property taxes on the building. > > It is not what you gather about, what you believe, or what you worship, it is your right to gather, right to believe, and right to worship, that I am in favor of protecting from government taxing. > > Best Regards,> > Donovan> > Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:> I believe that we should all be equal under the law. If David> Miscavige and Joe Ratzinger can avoid taxes because they are the> Chairpersons of organizations with funny beliefs, then I claim the> same privilege. I guarantee that my beliefs are just as funny.> > Or am I being discriminated against because I haven't incorporated,> and/or my beliefs aren't copyrighted?> > =======================================================> List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================> > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080121/2381beeb/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > =======================================================> List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 19, Issue 124> *******************************************
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