[Vision2020] Illegal Immigration: Was Re: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 19, Issue 97

Sun Jan 20 01:32:38 PST 2008

Don,

  I must take issue with you saying that conservatives are against illegal immigration because, "My guess is that the right wingers do not want to make it easy because most of these people would vote democrat for the first few generations".

  I am against illegal immigration for several reasons. I am against it because it is wrong on every side you look at it. 

  First, the reality is the United States and can only absorb so many people so fast, so it has to establish a fair and democratic way of letting people in so the infrastructure and economy doesn't collapse. Illegal immigrants cut in line and take the place of a person that was fairly selected to be here. Why should a poorer person, that played by the rules, jumped the hoops, living in a worse off condition, in a more dire position, and waited their turn in line be denied their turn because some yahoo cuts in line? 

  What they are doing to others playing by the rules is unfair, and in humane to them. Someone who violated the rules and laws, cuts in line, takes a job, and then sends the wealth out of the country is not acting in the interests of anyone but themselves. 

  How would you feel, if you waited for a long time in line, and then some group of people cut in line because they were in a position to do so and as a result you had to wait in line even longer, or never got in at all because they took your spot? You would probably be angry. 

  I feel that we owe it to all the other people around the world suffering from economic, political, religious, and environmental instability that are worse off than illegals coming into the country a fair shake at becoming a citizen. But they don't get a shot, they are discriminated against, precisely because others wealthier, and who have no regard for our citizen made laws for fairness cut in line and take what they are not invited to take. That makes me angry. 

  Second, illegal immigration set this country back 100 years in worker conditions and rights. We have workers now in conditions that make the Triangle Shirt Factory look like the Luxor. Because they work here illegally, they are subjecting themselves and others to working for wages workers were making 20 years ago, and in far less safe and sanitary conditions. One would think, if slavery stayed and evolved from 1865 to 2008, it would look like many of the factories today. 

  Finally, are infrastructure is falling apart. Our teachers, police officers, firefighters, social workers, as well as our schools, roads, buildings, utilities, and natural resources, especially water, are being over taxied and tapped out. 

  I think if you care about our environment, our resources, our public and government workers, our quality of life, our laws, our security, and being fair to all that want and have worked for a piece of the American dream, you would be against enabling others to cut in line and unfairly violate people's rights and property. 

  The United States has always been a nation that cherishes and depends on immigration. And without immigration the United States would decline in population and in economic growth. However, immigration needs to be decided based on merit and the ability of the country to adequately meet the needs of the immigrates without lowering the quality of life of those that are here and worked so hard for what they have. A mob of millions of illegal immigrants forcing this nation to take them, when it is not able to, is detrimental to the country, to the illegal immigrates, and to those who have been fairly waiting their turn. 

  Best Regards,

  Donovan  

  donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com> wrote:
      .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }    I think that sometimes there are excessively oppresive laws that have so many loop holes that forces one into breaking the law because there is practically no way to obtain your goal legally.  Currently it seems to be basically impossible for a lower class citizen of certain countries to come here on the cheap and legally.  Some do come anyway and go on to becoming CEO's, surgeons and other professional trades.  Pick up this month's reader digest for one such example.  

My guess is that the right wingers do not want to make it easy because most of these people would vote democrat for the first few generations and besides right now they are less likely to file workman's comp claims from injuries in unsafe factories or meat packing plants and other social services that a lot are paying into.  How many are working under a relatives social security number but fail to file for a refund or apply for benefits for fear of getting caught?  Big business wouldn't have it any other way and we are a govt of, by and for the corporation, right?  Hence more anti-immigration laws and propagandizing of the public to go along like sheep and not think or research the facts for themselves.

An example of laws like this would be Anslinger's anti-marijuana law that said that you needed a tax stamp to possess or sell it but you had to have it in your possession to apply for the stamp showing that you had already broken the law.  This was obviously thrown out as a blantant example so they classified it as a class 4 narcotic in the realm of heroin and cocaine claiming no useful purpose and proceeded to propagandize it publically regardless if it is proven to have no physically addictive properties (unlike legal alchohol & tobacco) nor any risk of overdose.  The propaganda and psudo-laws were also useful in deporting the surplus of those pesky immigrants laborers who liked to partake from the south who were taking our best jobs in the midst of the depression.

Oh, I agree with a month for recognizing immigrants from all nations.  Thank Germany for the closed minded thinking that scared away Einstein (an Agnostic Jew) or they would have made the Atomic bomb first.

Don

> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 19, Issue 97
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:37:41 -0800
> 
> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> vision2020-request at moscow.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> vision2020-owner at moscow.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Black History Month (Paul Rumelhart)
> 2. Re: Black History Month (g. crabtree)
> 3. Re: Black History Month (Paul Rumelhart)
> 4. Re: Looks Like Someone Forgot His Spinach (Donovan Arnold)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:22:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>,
> J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>,
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <618785.34953.qm at web37610.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> When you get right down to it, you could say that this
> nation was founded on the backs of illegal immigrants.
> Unless the colonists applied for VISAs from the
> natives, they were there illegally. To harp about the
> distinction now seems hypocritical.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of having these PC "Months", mainly
> because of the reasons stated. Why single out one
> group? It becomes a contest to see which one has the
> most political clout at any one time. I like the idea
> of an "American History Month", one devoted to all
> aspects of American History.
> 
> Paul
> 
> --- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> 
> > Good point Matt
> > 
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Matt Decker mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:12:12 -0800
> > To: J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com, Tom Hansen
> > thansen at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > 
> > > 
> > > I agree. We should acknowledge all who have made
> > this a great country. We not only should have a
> > Native American history month, but also Irish
> > > American, Chinese American, Italian American,
> > Japanese American, Arab American, German American,
> > Mexican American, Italian American, and months for
> > all the races that have brought this nation to what
> > it is.
> > > 
> > > Or we could role it all into one big fun month. We
> > could call it American history month. One that
> > strives to acknowledge all races and what they have
> > done to make the United States the best place to
> > live. This land was built on legal immigrants, all
> > of which should be recognized. 
> > > 
> > > Matt
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> > > To: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:03:26 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Thank you! Just what I was trying to say - Black
> > History Month gets the publicity and the other
> > "minorities" just get a one-time notice and then
> > forgotten. Since this is a MAJOR part of our
> > population as well as a main group of our
> > developments, this is just sad!
> > > 
> > > J :]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: thansen at moscow.com
> > > To: gussie443 at hotmail.com;
> > privatejf32 at hotmail.com; chasuk at gmail.com;
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:37:42 -0800
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >From the Defense Department website at:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
> http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/nativeamerican01/proclamation.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ???NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President
> > > of the United States of America,
> > > by virtue of the authority vested in me by the
> > Constitution and laws of the United States,
> > > do hereby proclaim November 2001 as National
> > American Indian Heritage Month. I
> > > call upon the people of the United
> > > States to observe this month with
> > > appropriate programs and activities.???
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Although the verbiage of this proclamation
> > > does establish a National American Indian Heritage
> > Month, it appears to only do
> > > so for the year 2001.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > 
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "If not us, who?
> > > 
> > > If not now, when?"
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > - Unknown
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From:
> > > vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of
> > Ellen
> > > Roskovich
> > > 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008
> > > 11:23 AM
> > > 
> > > To: J Ford; Chasuk;
> > > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > 
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black
> > > History Month
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Chas
> > > says we've had Native American Indian Heritage
> > Month EVERY year since
> > > 1994. However, this is the first I've heard of
> > it. Of course that
> > > doesn't mean it hasn't happened every November. .
> > . it just means it isn't very
> > > high on people's priorities and that's too bad. 
> > You'd think that in the
> > > past 17 years it would get a little publicity in
> > the media. Hopefully
> > > next November someone will remember.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ellen A.
> > > Roskovich
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> > > 
> > > To: chasuk at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > 
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:08:58 -0800
> From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>, "lfalen"
> <lfalen at turbonet.com>, "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, "J Ford"
> <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>,
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <00cb01c85a51$048b54b0$6401a8c0 at gmc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
> 
> Not to put too sharp a point on things but, for something to have been 
> illegal there would have had to have been a law against it in the first 
> place. There was not. When Europeans arrived and commenced to settling this 
> country the indigs had no written language or concept of property much less 
> of sovereign country. To have asked for a by your leave would have been 
> similar to asking herring for permission to swim in their ocean. To make the 
> claim that we came here illegally is insupportable.
> 
> g
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>; "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>; 
> "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>; "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; 
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> 
> 
> When you get right down to it, you could say that this
> nation was founded on the backs of illegal immigrants.
> Unless the colonists applied for VISAs from the
> natives, they were there illegally. To harp about the
> distinction now seems hypocritical.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of having these PC "Months", mainly
> because of the reasons stated. Why single out one
> group? It becomes a contest to see which one has the
> most political clout at any one time. I like the idea
> of an "American History Month", one devoted to all
> aspects of American History.
> 
> Paul
> 
> --- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> 
> > Good point Matt
> >
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Matt Decker mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:12:12 -0800
> > To: J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com, Tom Hansen
> > thansen at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> >
> > >
> > > I agree. We should acknowledge all who have made
> > this a great country. We not only should have a
> > Native American history month, but also Irish
> > > American, Chinese American, Italian American,
> > Japanese American, Arab American, German American,
> > Mexican American, Italian American, and months for
> > all the races that have brought this nation to what
> > it is.
> > >
> > > Or we could role it all into one big fun month. We
> > could call it American history month. One that
> > strives to acknowledge all races and what they have
> > done to make the United States the best place to
> > live. This land was built on legal immigrants, all
> > of which should be recognized.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> > > To: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:03:26 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you! Just what I was trying to say - Black
> > History Month gets the publicity and the other
> > "minorities" just get a one-time notice and then
> > forgotten. Since this is a MAJOR part of our
> > population as well as a main group of our
> > developments, this is just sad!
> > >
> > > J :]
> > >
> > >
> > > From: thansen at moscow.com
> > > To: gussie443 at hotmail.com;
> > privatejf32 at hotmail.com; chasuk at gmail.com;
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:37:42 -0800
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From the Defense Department website at:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/nativeamerican01/proclamation.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ??oNOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President
> > > of the United States of America,
> > > by virtue of the authority vested in me by the
> > Constitution and laws of the United States,
> > > do hereby proclaim November 2001 as National
> > American Indian Heritage Month. I
> > > call upon the people of the United
> > > States to observe this month with
> > > appropriate programs and activities.???
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Although the verbiage of this proclamation
> > > does establish a National American Indian Heritage
> > Month, it appears to only do
> > > so for the year 2001.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen
> > >
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "If not us, who?
> > >
> > > If not now, when?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Unknown
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:
> > > vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of
> > Ellen
> > > Roskovich
> > >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008
> > > 11:23 AM
> > >
> > > To: J Ford; Chasuk;
> > > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black
> > > History Month
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Chas
> > > says we've had Native American Indian Heritage
> > Month EVERY year since
> > > 1994. However, this is the first I've heard of
> > it. Of course that
> > > doesn't mean it hasn't happened every November. .
> > . it just means it isn't very
> > > high on people's priorities and that's too bad.
> > You'd think that in the
> > > past 17 years it would get a little publicity in
> > the media. Hopefully
> > > next November someone will remember.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ellen A.
> > > Roskovich
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> > >
> > > To: chasuk at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >
> >
> === message truncated ===
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:51:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>, lfalen
> <lfalen at turbonet.com>, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, J Ford
> <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>,
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <769976.54341.qm at web37604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> I suspect they had laws even if they didn't codify
> them with the obsessiveness our culture displays. I
> also suspect that we at least infringed upon one or
> two when we fought them, killed many of them,
> conquered them, and forced them from the land they had
> lived on all their lives and onto reservations.
> 
> Not to put too sharp a point on it either, but we just
> didn't give a damn. 
> 
> Paul
> 
> --- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
> > Not to put too sharp a point on things but, for
> > something to have been 
> > illegal there would have had to have been a law
> > against it in the first 
> > place. There was not. When Europeans arrived and
> > commenced to settling this 
> > country the indigs had no written language or
> > concept of property much less 
> > of sovereign country. To have asked for a by your
> > leave would have been 
> > similar to asking herring for permission to swim in
> > their ocean. To make the 
> > claim that we came here illegally is insupportable.
> > 
> > g
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>; "Matt Decker"
> > <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>; 
> > "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>; "Tom Hansen"
> > <thansen at moscow.com>; 
> > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > 
> > 
> > When you get right down to it, you could say that
> > this
> > nation was founded on the backs of illegal
> > immigrants.
> > Unless the colonists applied for VISAs from the
> > natives, they were there illegally. To harp about
> > the
> > distinction now seems hypocritical.
> > 
> > I'm not a big fan of having these PC "Months",
> > mainly
> > because of the reasons stated. Why single out one
> > group? It becomes a contest to see which one has
> > the
> > most political clout at any one time. I like the
> > idea
> > of an "American History Month", one devoted to all
> > aspects of American History.
> > 
> > Paul
> > 
> > --- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Good point Matt
> > >
> > > Roger
> > > -----Original message-----
> > > From: Matt Decker mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:12:12 -0800
> > > To: J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com, Tom Hansen
> > > thansen at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree. We should acknowledge all who have made
> > > this a great country. We not only should have a
> > > Native American history month, but also Irish
> > > > American, Chinese American, Italian American,
> > > Japanese American, Arab American, German
> > American,
> > > Mexican American, Italian American, and months for
> > > all the races that have brought this nation to
> > what
> > > it is.
> > > >
> > > > Or we could role it all into one big fun month.
> > We
> > > could call it American history month. One that
> > > strives to acknowledge all races and what they
> > have
> > > done to make the United States the best place to
> > > live. This land was built on legal immigrants, all
> > > of which should be recognized.
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> > > > To: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:03:26 -0800
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you! Just what I was trying to say -
> > Black
> > > History Month gets the publicity and the other
> > > "minorities" just get a one-time notice and then
> > > forgotten. Since this is a MAJOR part of our
> > > population as well as a main group of our
> > > developments, this is just sad!
> > > >
> > > > J :]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: thansen at moscow.com
> > > > To: gussie443 at hotmail.com;
> > > privatejf32 at hotmail.com; chasuk at gmail.com;
> > > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Black History Month
> > > > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:37:42 -0800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From the Defense Department website at:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/nativeamerican01/proclamation.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ??oNOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President
> > > > of the United States of America,
> > > > by virtue of the authority vested in me by the
> > > Constitution and laws of the United States,
> > > > do hereby proclaim November 2001 as National
> > > American Indian Heritage Month. I
> > > > call upon the people of the United
> > > > States to observe this month with
> > > > appropriate programs and activities.???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Although the verbiage of this proclamation
> > > > does establish a National American Indian
> > Heritage
> > > Month, it appears to only do
> > > > so for the year 2001.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tom Hansen
> > > >
> > > > Moscow, Idaho
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "If not us, who?
> > > >
> > > > If not now, when?"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Unknown
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:37:48 -0800 (PST)
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Looks Like Someone Forgot His Spinach
> To: Popeye Landscape <dctrofdamind at gmail.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <764546.57765.qm at web38106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi Popeye,
> 
> Thanks for giving my ignored words attention. Perhaps you can explain this inconsistency in your two statements?
> 
> To Keely you wrote:
> 
> "I am not one of those PC liberals who takes *retard* to mean anything more than an emotionally laden reference to being "very stupid". If you are dumb enough to take that as an insult to the handicap then so be it."
> 
> I don't think Keely is dumb, you in fact used it in that reference,
> 
> "Even retards (mentally challenged) individuals like yourself should face local criticism to the extent anyone would give any of your words serious consideration."
> 
> You did not use it in the slang term, you clearly put it in the parentheses to make the meaning understood. 
> 
> If you think I am dumb, that is fine by me, your opinion of me matters not at all to me, or to anybody. If you have a point to make against my mine, than please make it intelligently as you can. If you dislike anyone with a disability, Nazis, Hispanics, Jews, Nuns with Guns, Abortions, Mormons, Catholics, Transexuals, Gays, whatever, you are free to do so. But please don't lie. It makes our conversations with you unproductive. 
> 
> Might I also suggest to you, not to use your business account email to troll and make slanderous derogatory remarks against people using such terms against the disabled. Many people may choose not to do business with you for that reason. Many people will boycott a business that appears discriminatory or inhumane to others. 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Donovan the "Retarded"
> 
> 
> 
> keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I guess.
> 
> Keely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:32:13 -0800
> From: dctrofdamind at gmail.com
> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Donovan Arnold - Man of Action? Re: Wilson's Religious Empire
> 
> Keely,
> 
> If you read a couple posts up you will notice that Donovan leveled a rude criticism to Nick Gyer. I was replying to Donovan on that issue.
> 
> I am not one of those PC liberals who takes *retard* to mean anything more than an emotionally laden reference to being "very stupid". If you are dumb enough to take that as an insult to the handicap then so be it. I find it *disgusting* that you would would limit my *practical* freedom of speech using the term *retard*. Donovan was being an idiot and that is all I was remarking on. 
> 
> Please don't be a speech Nazi and lighten up a bit.
> tx,
> Popeye
> 
> 
> On Jan 18, 2008 8:43 AM, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> Hey, Popeye -- Knock it off. It's rude to address anyone the way you did here. I don't care what Donovan's or anyone else's mental capacities are; "retard" is a disgusting epithet, and determining that Donovan has somehow less value than you or I or Doug Wilson is wrong. 
> 
> You obviously don't like Wilson. Neither do I. But you err in thinking that being on whatever right side there is to the whole Christ Church thing gives you free rein in saying things. I don't know who you are, and I don't know Donovan. But I do know that it's wrong to attack someone like this, and I hope you change your tactics. 
> 
> Keely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 07:16:48 -0800
> From: dctrofdamind at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Donovan Arnold - Man of Action? Re: Wilson's Religious Empire 
> 
> 
> Donovan, 
> 
> Everyone has a right to criticize someone for damaging society e.g., Hitler Internationally and yes Doug locally (Moscow's local fuhrer). 
> 
> Even retards (mentally challenged) individuals like yourself should face local criticism to the extent anyone would give any of your words serious consideration. 
> 
> Donovan unlike Wilson will remain largely ignored in life.
> 
> Popeye. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!! Learn more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. Play now! =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> http://www.fsr.net 
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080118/335d22f0/attachment.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> http://www.fsr.net 
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> 
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 19, Issue 97
> ******************************************

---------------------------------
  Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! =======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
http://www.fsr.net 
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080120/69a25410/attachment-0001.html 