[Vision2020] child forced back/was Romney drops out!?
Andreas Schou
ophite at gmail.com
Sat Feb 9 15:56:38 PST 2008
Given a choice between respect for a mother who nearly killed her
child and respect for the integrity of the family and international
law, I'll take the latter over the former every time. Thought
experiment: what would Pat say if it was Mexico rather than Cuba?
-- ACS
On Feb 9, 2008 3:51 PM, <pkraut at moscow.com> wrote:
> Those 'circumstances' sent this child to live in a communist country!!
> The mother died to give him freedom and they had no respect for that and
> neither does anyone else on this site because I am the first one to
> mention it and it was about her for me. And his hope for the future.
>
>
>
>
> > Inasmuch as I continue to support Hillary Clinton for President for
> > reasons that may not appeal to anyone's political logic but mine, and
> > because I was so vehement over the Gerry Weitz attempt to refashion the
> > world in his image, I have tried to tone it down a bit and be much more
> > my lovable non-contentious self; however, I find I must agree with Sunil
> > on this one. Had it been any other child in any other circumstance the
> > right wing zealots who champion "the father as head of the family" world
> > view would have been right there with the police to be sure he was
> > returned to his rightful owner.
> >
> > I also believe a more visable role for Bill Clinton in Gore's
> > campaign just might have been enough to keep the Rs from stealing that
> > election. I think Gore was hurt, not helped, by his refusal to involve
> > Clinton.
> >
> > One question, too: Doesn't the Idaho sunshine law cover city council
> > actions? If so, how could they legally vote in a closed session to sign
> > a contract with Hawkins?
> >
> > Sue H.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Sunil Ramalingam
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 9:47 AM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] child forced back/was Romney drops out!?
> >
> >
> > I know I'm sidetracking...
> >
> > I agree that returning a child to his father may have caused political
> > problems for Gore had he accepted help from Bill Clinton in 2000. But I
> > do disagree that 'they forced that Cuban child back to Castro.'
> >
> > They returned a child to his father after his mother's death. A child
> > should be with his or her natural parents unless there's a showing that
> > the parents are unfit. There was no such showing in the Gonzalez case.
> > Instead we had politics sticking its ugly head into family business,
> > just as we later saw in the Terry Schiavo case.
> >
> > Extended family, wherever they're located, don't get to grab someone
> > else's child unless the parent/s are unfit. We wouldn't allow the
> > Beverly Hills relatives to grab a Moscow/Potlatch/Deary child from a
> > parent just because the relatives had a big house with a cement pond.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -> ---
> > Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:04:17 -0800
> > From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > To: sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Romney drops out!?
> >
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > In 2000 Bill Clinton had a 42% approval rating. Campaigning with
> > Clinton in 2000 would have been a kiss of death. He had an even lower
> > rating in Florida because they forced that Cuban child back to Castro.
> >
> > Yes, Gore lost the election because Florida's Secretary of State,
> > Kathleen Harris, certified the wrong set of popular votes giving the
> > electoral votes to Bush instead of Gore. Also, Nader split the
> > Democratic vote in Vermont, giving the state to Bush. Gore didn't lose
> > the election in 2000, it was stolen from him, and Nader made it
> > possible. Nader doesn't have issues he is concerned with, he is only
> > concerned about himself. The environment has been demolished and set
> > back decades because Bush was allowed into office.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Donovan
> >
> > Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > It's a stretch to suggest that Nader sabotaged the 2000 election.
> > The reason Al Gore lost was because of Al Gore himself. Under the
> > categories of coulda, woulda, shoulda, Gore coulda had Bill Clinton
> > campaigning for him instead of distancing himself from Clinton. And
> > Bill Clinton knows how to run a successful campaign.
> >
> > I'd like to see a Clinton/Obama ticket running against a
> > McCain/anybody ticket. Also, it doesn't particularly matter much to me
> > which ticket wins, I'm just looking forward to the regime change even
> > though George W. Bush is basically neutered at this stage.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> > To: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net>
> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:36:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Romney drops out!?
> >
> >
> > On 2/8/08, Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > Edwards would be good, as I like what he says, but my
> > preference would be Ralph Nader, who may very well
> > campaign for President. Appealing to Progressives is
> > good with me, despite whatever baggage Nader may have
> > (and really, who doesn't have baggage?)
> >
> > Nader has a record of working on changing America for
> > the better for 40 years. He is well connected to the
> > activist community, and engaging activists is key to
> > changing our country from it's disastrous course. An
> > Obama/Nader ticket sounds sweet to me.
> >
> > gclev
> >
> > Many progressives begged Nader to drop out of the 2000
> > presidential race, due to the potential of splitting the Democratic vote
> > harming Gore's chances. We all know the result. Nader helped put Bush
> > in the White House in 2000. Nader's Florida votes alone gave Florida's
> > electoral votes to Bush, as the vote count actually was counted, though
> > we also know that absent illegal voter disenfranchisement, deliberately
> > pushed by Florida's Secretary of State and Bush supporter Katherine
> > Harris, Gore would have won Florida, even with Nader's participation.
> >
> > Republican operatives were running ads supporting Nader's 2000
> > candidacy, knowing this would hurt Gore. And Nader knew this.
> >
> > Nader even argued that a Bush presidency might be good for the
> > nation in the long run, given that Bush would create such a back lash
> > against his policies that progressives in the long run would become more
> > unified and motivated.
> >
> > But as far as I am concerned, given the damage of the Bush
> > administration, Nader's 2000 presidential run was an irresponsible
> > application of idealistic principles over sensible practical politics,
> > resulting in wounds that may not heal for decades. The pending US
> > Supreme Court nominations in 2000 alone were enough of a reason for
> > Nader to withdraw to allow Gore the best chance of a win. Nader and
> > everyone knew there was zero chance of Nader taking the White House.
> > His presidential run did not even result in a stronger party base
> > supporting Nader or those who support his policies. His supporters are
> > more off the radar now than in 2000.
> >
> > I recall hearing from Nader supporters in 2000 how Gore and Bush
> > both represented corporate big money, and entrenched elitist Washington
> > power, and were not that different. Well, we have seen that however
> > much this was true, there were substantial differences between Gore and
> > Bush that would have taken the USA in very different directions on
> > critical issues, the invasion of Iraq and climate change, for example.
> > I do not believe Gore would have supported the invasion and occupation
> > of Iraq, and he would have began to address climate change while the
> > Bush administration was in denial, backing big oil and energy interests,
> > who did not want to address climate change for obvious financial
> > reasons.
> >
> > Nader would be a terrible choice for a VP candidate under Obama.
> > I lost respect for him as a politician after his sabotage of the 2000
> > presidential election. This showed he is not willing to compromise when
> > the overall good of the nation is at stake.
> >
> > Ted Moffett
> >
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
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