[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered yikes - correction

Mon Sep 24 12:34:50 PDT 2007

*crimson blush*

Well, it just goes to show, I should never chat with my granddaughter while
send a reply. As most of your are likley aware. The poem was written by
MARTIN Niemoller.

Indian Summer is here! Enjoy the day!!!

Janesta

On 9/24/07, Janesta <janesta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The first link is private, the second is MSNBC. The poem, Paster Norman
> Niemoller
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=tCBcOQkUNjI First They Came for the Jews
>
> First they came for the Jews
> and I did not speak out
> because I was not a Jew.
>
> Then they came for the Communists
> and I did not speak out
> because I was not a Communist.
>
> Then they came for the trade unionists
> and I did not speak out
> because I was not a trade unionist.
>
> Then they came for me
> and there was no one left
> to speak out for me.
> *Pastor Martin Niemöller*
>
>
>
>
> On 9/24/07, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >
> > I did not see or read about the incident so can't speak to it. I support
> > the right to free speech. This does have some limitations though, such as
> > crying fire in a crowed theater and disrupting a meeting. I don't know if
> > this individual was being disruptive or not. If he was that would be grounds
> > for removing him.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
> > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:21:04 -0700
> > To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com, Sunil
> > Ramalingamsunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> >
> > >
> > > Gary, free speech gives everyone "unlimited license to act the
> > fool;"  it's when foolishness becomes actually dangerous -- you know,
> > yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater -- that it is rightly restricted.   I
> > suspect you're aware of that, but partisanship makes it easier to
> > momentarily forget that while making, in some vague way, a political
> > statement.
> > >
> > > keely
> > >
> > >
> > > From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> > > To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700
> > > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy
> > > with Theresa's boy
> > > and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you
> > > have extended your argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence
> > as speech
> > > in a political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a
> > person
> > > unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can
> > in some
> > > vague way be construed as a political statement.
> > >
> > > g
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > > Cc: < vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49
> > > AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> > > tasered
> > >
> > > > Wrong.  I absolutely would make the identical argument.
> > > I'm talking about
> > > > the Constitution, not my own preferences.  And
> > > isince you missed it, most of
> > > > my condemnation here is for the person I
> > > voted for in the last election, not
> > > > Bush.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Sunil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> > > >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" < sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > > >>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> > > tasered
> > > >>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43
> > > -0700
> > > >>
> > > >>I very much doubt that you would be making the same
> > > argument if the guy was
> > > >>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand
> > > down after his time was up and
> > > >>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a
> > > specific question.
> > > >>
> > > >>g
> > > >>----- Original Message
> > > ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> > > >><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > > >>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25
> > > PM
> > > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> > > tasered
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>Paul,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>The
> > > possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is,
> > > if
> > > >>>true, irrelevant.  He was at a political forum engaging
> > > in political
> > > >>>speech.
> > > >>>  That's protected by
> > > the First Amendment.  None of us have to like it;
> > >
> > > >>>it's
> > > >>>protected speech.  I wouldn't say there
> > > was a 'conspiracy' to shut his
> > > >>>views
> > > >>>down, but
> > > someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly
> > > a
> > > >>>dialog between him and Kerry.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>I
> > > won't defend the decision to taser him.  I think it's abominable.
> > > They
> > > >>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between
> > > options such
> > > >>>as
> > > >>>electrocuting him or dislocating
> > > his shoulder or breaking his wrist.  They
> > > >>>were state actors
> > > shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been
> > > >>>doing
> > > anything of the sort.  They should have allowed him to exercise
> > > his
> > > >>>rights.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>It would be different
> > > if he showed up and did this in your living room;
> > >
> > > >>>but
> > > >>>this was a political event.  There are
> > > few places where political speech
> > > >>>is
> > > >>>more
> > > appropriate than in this setting.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>You're right
> > > that Kerry didn't initiate anything.  Instead of trying to
> > >
> > > >>>stop
> > > >>>this, he did nothing but drone on.  He
> > > could have told the cops there was
> > > >>>no
> > > >>>need for
> > > their action.  He could have reminded them that this is
> > > America,
> > > >>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians,
> > > and that
> > > >>>politicians
> > > >>>answer to the People.
> > > What a chance to show what free speech means!  But
> > > >>>instead
> > > he showed once again his innate ability to miss an
> > > opportunity;
> > > >>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the
> > > student's
> > > questions.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Sunil
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>From:
> > > Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > > >>>>To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com >
> > > >>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,
> > >
> > > >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >>>>Subject: Re:
> > > [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> > > >>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep
> > > 2007 17:34:15 -0700
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>I think there are a
> > > couple of things going on here.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>The first
> > > was a decision by the police to remove him from the
> > > microphone
> > > >>>>and from the vicinity.  The second was to
> > > taser him when they did.  I'm
> > > >>>>unsure about the first
> > > decision.  I have little pity for him, because I
> > > >>>>think
> > > he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up".  That's just
> > > my
> > > >>>>opinion.  I also don't think he was removed from the
> > > podium because of
> > > >>>>any
> > > >>>>specific thing he
> > > said.  I don't think he was removed because he
> > > was
> > > >>>>upsetting Kerry, either.  I think he was removed
> > > because he was
> > > >>>>recognized
> > > >>>>as someone who
> > > disrupts public events.  I would rather that they let
> > > him
> > > >>>>finish his question.  However, I don't think he
> > > wanted to be allowed to
> > > >>>>finish his question, I think he
> > > wanted to make a scene.  I don't see a
> > > >>>>conspiracy to
> > > shut this man's views down.  If he had asked them calmly
> > >
> > > >>>>and
> > > >>>>politely, he would probably have been
> > > fine.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>The decision to taser him when they
> > > did I can somewhat agree with.  They
> > > >>>>were removing him
> > > from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to
> > > >>>>that
> > > action.  When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to
> > > get
> > > >>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't
> > > cooperate.  So they
> > > >>>>tasered him, after warning him they
> > > were going to taser him several
> > > >>>>times,
> > > >>>>in
> > > order to shake him up long enough to get control of him.  I think
> > > they
> > > >>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more
> > > damaging, such as
> > > >>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a
> > > wrist.  I say that I can "somewhat"
> > > >>>>agree with the
> > > decision because I'm not an expert in restraining
> > > someone.
> > > >>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options
> > > at their disposal.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>This is all my opinion
> > > from watching one of the videos on youtube that
> > > >>>>shows the
> > > arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on
> > > this
> > > >>>>guy's history.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>I
> > > also think this had nothing to do with Kerry.  He was willing to
> > > answer
> > > >>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate
> > > anything.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Paul
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Ted
> > > Moffett wrote:
> > > >>>>>Sunil et.
> > > al.
> > > >>>>>  Sorry, I had not read the story at the
> > > "Counterpunch" link you
> > >
> > > >>>>>offered.
> > > >>>>>And given some of the
> > > responses to this thread, I wonder how many others
> > > >>>>>read
> > > the story.  I found out what the student was questioning Kerry
> > >
> > > >>>>>about
> > > >>>>>(the Palast book and the
> > > "stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from
> > > other
> > > >>>>>sources.  The more I find out about what
> > > happened in this incident, the
> > > >>>>>more disturbing the police
> > > response appears.  As the "Counterpunch"
> > >
> > > >>>>>story
> > > >>>>>headline questions, "Why
> > > did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?"  I
> > >
> > > >>>>>wonder
> > > >>>>>if Kerry has issued any
> > > public responses to the coverage of this story
> > >
> > > >>>>>in
> > > >>>>>the
> > > media.
> > > >>>>>  Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good
> > > questions that need to be
> > > >>>>>asked over and
> > > over...
> > > >>>>>  The questions asked were, according to the
> > > "Counterpunch" article:
> > > >>>>>  At the conclusion of
> > > Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
> > > >>>>>journalism
> > > student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question.
> > >
> > > >>>>>Meyer
> > > >>>>>held up a copy of BBC
> > > investigative reporter Greg Palast's book,
> > > Armed
> > > >>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that
> > > Palast's investigations
> > > >>>>>determined that Kerry had
> > > actually won the election.  Why, Meyer asked,
> > > >>>>>had
> > > Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many
> > >
> > > >>>>>obvious
> > > >>>>>examples of vote
> > > fraud?  Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing
> > >
> > > >>>>>to
> > > >>>>>consider Bush's impeachment
> > > when Bush was about to initiate another act
> > >
> > > >>>>>of
> > > >>>>>military aggression, this time
> > > against
> > > Iran?
> > >
> > >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > >>>>>Ted
> > > Moffett
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>=======================================================
> > > >>>List
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> > > >>>serving the
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> > > 1994.
> > > >>>
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > >>>
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >>>=======================================================
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > =======================================================
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> > > services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > serving the
> > > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >
> > > >
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > >
> > > >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >
> > > =======================================================
> > > >
> > >
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[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered *yikes - correction*

[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered yikes - correction