[Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 21 21:25:33 PDT 2007
Bruce,
I am afraid you missed what I was saying so I will clarify.
Regarding race, minorities are disproportionally discriminated against because they are lower income, have less money, and are more likely to have no credit, bad credit, or have filed bankruptcy--therefore they are much more likely to be renters and prevented from living in middle class neighborhoods. This is another stumbling block for minorities to be able to live in decent neighborhoods.
Second, regarding the elderly, I was not speaking in regards to elderly individuals living with their adult children, I was talking about the elderly that rent or lease their own homes out or part of their homes so they can afford to keep their homes. I personally know from my work that many elderly people get injured and have to live in a rehabilitation center for up to a year, and rent out their homes to pay the bills with the intent of returning to their home. Property taxes and health bills can also force them to rent a portion of their house.
Third, while "Group Homes" that are licensed by the state as group homes may be exempt from some laws regarding limitations on housing, more than 90% of people with disabilities don't live in a state licensed group homes and don't qualify to do so. Most people living on just SSI live with two to five other people and rent as normal renters. They are not allowed to work more than 10 hours a week or they lose all their state medical benefits which is more than most of them can obtain at a job, so they do not have the opportunity to live in a "normal" neighborhood unless they can pool their income ($660 a month, $220 a month for housing) with others in their same financial situation. So this law will put those that are disabled, living on very limited income, in an even tighter housing pinch.
Finally, you have single moms and lesbian and gay couples that are discriminated against. Two or more single moms living together in the same house would not qualify because they are not all related. Same goes with a gay or lesbian couple whom cannot get married but may wish to have all their children living together in one house. Two lesbians each with two children from previous marriages or adoptions could not live all live together as a family under this new law. This law prevents "family" from being anything but a man and woman married with/without children. I think family can be more than that narrow definition.
This law discriminates disproportionately to many of societies members that have a difficult time already finding decent quality housing. You and many other upper middle class that do not face employment discrimination or live with a limiting disability clearly are not impacted by this law, but it is an unfair law and there are better ways of dealing with the problems that people wish addressed regarding overcrowding, noise, and rowdiness in neighborhoods.
Best,
Donovan
jeanlivingston <jeanlivingston at turbonet.com> wrote:
Donovan,
The ordinance that defines the numbers of unrelated people who may live together in a home in a low density residential neighborhood applies to all people regardless of race. Minority status has nothing to do with numbers of people living in a house.
For the most part, age, likewise, is not impacted. Nor are single moms affected. My elderly mother is related to me, just as a single mom's children are related to her. The ordinance addresses UNrelated people living together.
Finally, my understanding is that group homes of unrelated, disabled or elderly people are exempted from the law. If my understanding is correct, and I don't have the citation handy, the state code allows (up to eight) elderly or disabled people to live in a group home as a family unit WITHOUT a Conditional Use Permit. This is as per Idaho code. Perhaps one of the City's legal eagles could fill you in on the specifics if you want more information on that.
Bruce
-----Original message-----
From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:52:33 -0700
To: keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com, lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com, Tom Ivie the_ivies3 at yahoo.com, Moscow Vision 2020 vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)
> Keely,
>
> Sorry you are confused, but nobody is unaware of the current restrictions on occupancy. Your argument seems to be that the limiting of the occupancy is OK because it is the law, without looking at the validity of the reasons for establishing the law, and ignoring the injustices it causes as well as the restrictions on private property rights.
>
> The quickest way to eliminate minorities, elderly, single moms, and group homes for the disabled from being located in your upper class white neighborhood without expressly prohibiting it in your neighborhood charter would be to prevent renting out homes and limiting the number of inhabitants for each unit, which if what the city council has done.
>
> It is obvious, that the only way many group homes, many minorities, single moms, and the retired living on limited income can afford to live in middle class neighbors would be if they shared the rent with several other occupants in a rented home.
>
> The reason for this law is to remove the five or six college students living in a neighborhood because many of them are not respectful or do not fit in with their family friendly neighbors. Home owners don't like that. I can understand that. But this law is discriminatory and keeps out lower income people that are a value to the community and add much needed diversity to the otherwise wealthy WASP family values neighborhoods.
>
> I think better enforcement of current laws are in order. However, Moscow is a college town. And while some student tear up the place, remember without the students Moscow would be a tiny poor farming town called Hog Heaven. They are the bread and butter for everyone on the Palouse.
>
> Best,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
>
> keely emerinemix wrote:
> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Noise IS covered under an ordinance; other forms of illegal behavior under others. And the number of people, whether contemplative monks or hard-partying college boys, also is covered under ordinance. Has been for at least 15 years. That's because -- and it really IS this simple -- renting to non-family members constitutes running a business, one that the City has long decided is unlawful in areas zoned not for business, but for single-family homes.
>
> Period.
>
> Rocket science need not be employed here, but I would invite doubters to remember the preschool lessons of "obey rules" and "break rules" if they're further confused.
>
> keely
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:38:43 -0700
> > From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> > To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; the_ivies3 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? Discrimination
> >
> > It seems to me that controlling the number people that live in a house is a round about way of getting at the "stated problem"
> > If noise is the problem regulate that. If parking is a problem regulate that. The only problem I see with the number of people living in one house would be a potential safety problem.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:57:07 -0700
> > To: Tom Ivie the_ivies3 at yahoo.com, Moscow Vision 2020 vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? Discrimination
> >
> > > Tom Ivie,
> > >
> > > Lowering the number of occupants per housing unit by law increases demand for more apartments and housing units, driving the cost up. With rents up even more, renters are further soaked again by limiting the number of people they can split rent with.
> > >
> > > Moscow is a college town. Students cannot afford much more that $300 piece for rent. IF Moscow raises its rents, the number of students returning to UI will reduce because they cannot afford to live in the city with no jobs and unaffordable housing. Many of them will elect elsewhere to attend like BSU, Albertson, NNU, ISU, LCSC or the new junior college in Nampa. But this is a good move for the socialists agenda of destroying the Moscow economy through relentless unneeded government regulation.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Donovan
> > >
> > > Tom Ivie wrote:
> > > Doesn't it include a CUP process? As I understand it, and I could be wrong, lowering the number brings Moscow more in-line with the codified number that the majority of cities our size use.
> > >
> > > Donovan Arnold wrote: "These three people [(Pall, Ament and Lamar)] feel that counting unrelated people in a
> > > dwelling will solve noise and parking problems in residential
> > > neighborhoods."
> > >
> > > Mr. Busch is correct on this point. I think counting the number of unrelated people is discriminatory. When I worked at Inclusion North there were often several people with disabilities living in one home because they cannot afford their own place on a $660 a month SSI check, especially in a city like Moscow. There are many poor, disabled, and elderly people that MUST live together in one dwelling for economic survival. This code is a raw deal for those that are in need of affordable housing. Another example of elitist socialists trying to make everyone live like them regardless of their financial situations. The City Council members are saying, "Let them eat cake", or in this case, let them live in an apartment with only two people if they can only afford to live in an apartment with four others.
> > >
> > > And on the other side of the coin, a family of two adults with two teenagers can be very noisy and make life for their neighbors intolerable. Why not limit how many teenagers can live in one household, or how many babies a single mom can have? It would be just as unfair.
> > >
> > > An unjust law, clearly invented by people living in nice homes with secure incomes. I hope the newly elected city council will reverse this piece of discrimination.
> > >
> > > If Moscow would allow for the building of affordable housing for what people actually earn in Moscow we would not have 5 students or 5 people on SSI living in one housing unit. And BTW, Moscow has more people per housing unit then any other city in the state according the BLS.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Donovan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen wrote:
> > > In a letter to the editor of the Lewiston Tribune, published today
> > > (September 16, 2007), Steve Busch suggests that "enforcing existing law
> > > [Moscow Zoning Code] is all that is necessary."
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Comments made in a letter to the editor authored by local attorney Jack
> > > Porter and published in the Sept. 12 Lewiston Tribune cannot be ignored. On
> > > Sept. 4, the current city council voted 3-2 to change Moscow's city code in
> > > an attempt to deal with a real problem.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the majority (Pall, Ament and Lamar) threw the baby out with
> > > the bath water. These three people feel that counting unrelated people in a
> > > dwelling will solve noise and parking problems in residential neighborhoods.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Greater Moscow Alliance feel enforcing existing law is all that is
> > > necessary. We said so in a letter presented to the council on Sept. 10 (to
> > > see a copy visit www.greatermoscow.org). Mr. Porter thinks this is evidence
> > > the GMA is insensitive to Moscow citizens' cherished life style. Nothing
> > > could be further from the truth. GMA is working hard to educate the public
> > > about issues and candidates.
> > >
> > > I urge all Moscow voters to ask candidates for city council tough questions.
> > > Listen carefully to the answers and vote your conscience.
> > >
> > > Steve Busch
> > > President
> > > Greater Moscow Alliance
> > > Moscow
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Questions, Mr. Busch: How often, and how selective, should enforcement of
> > > zoning codes be enforced? Instead of amending the current code ad nauseam
> > > and allowing for conditional use permits every time somebody violates
> > > "existing law", should we draw the proverbial line in the sand, much like
> > > the Raven, strongly proclaim "Ne'er more", and further demand that those
> > > entities that are currently in violation of the zoning code move elsewhere?
> > >
> > > Reminder, folks!
> > > http://tinyurl.com/36ghxk
> > >
> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > >
> > > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
> > > students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
> > >
> > > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
> > >
> > >
> > >
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