[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 21 17:34:15 PDT 2007
I think there are a couple of things going on here.
The first was a decision by the police to remove him from the microphone
and from the vicinity. The second was to taser him when they did. I'm
unsure about the first decision. I have little pity for him, because I
think he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up". That's just my
opinion. I also don't think he was removed from the podium because of
any specific thing he said. I don't think he was removed because he was
upsetting Kerry, either. I think he was removed because he was
recognized as someone who disrupts public events. I would rather that
they let him finish his question. However, I don't think he wanted to
be allowed to finish his question, I think he wanted to make a scene. I
don't see a conspiracy to shut this man's views down. If he had asked
them calmly and politely, he would probably have been fine.
The decision to taser him when they did I can somewhat agree with. They
were removing him from the room, and he would not calm down and submit
to that action. When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to
get cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't cooperate. So
they tasered him, after warning him they were going to taser him several
times, in order to shake him up long enough to get control of him. I
think they chose to do that rather than to do something more damaging,
such as dislocating a shoulder or breaking a wrist. I say that I can
"somewhat" agree with the decision because I'm not an expert in
restraining someone. Perhaps they had other less headline-making
options at their disposal.
This is all my opinion from watching one of the videos on youtube that
shows the arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on this
guy's history.
I also think this had nothing to do with Kerry. He was willing to
answer the questions, and he didn't initiate anything.
Paul
Ted Moffett wrote:
> Sunil et. al.
>
> Sorry, I had not read the story at the "Counterpunch" link you
> offered. And given some of the responses to this thread, I wonder how
> many others read the story. I found out what the student was
> questioning Kerry about (the Palast book and the "stolen" election of
> 2004, etc.) from other sources. The more I find out about what
> happened in this incident, the more disturbing the police response
> appears.
>
> As the "Counterpunch" story headline questions, "Why did Senator John
> Kerry stand idly by?" I wonder if Kerry has issued any public
> responses to the coverage of this story in the media.
>
> Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good questions that need to be
> asked over and over...
>
> The questions asked were, according to the "Counterpunch" article:
>
> At the conclusion of Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
> journalism student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question.
> Meyer held up a copy of BBC investigative reporter Greg Palast's book,
> Armed Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that Palast's
> investigations determined that Kerry had actually won the election.
> Why, Meyer asked, had Kerry conceded the election so quickly when
> there were so many obvious examples of vote fraud? Why, Meyer, went
> on to ask, was Kerry refusing to consider Bush's impeachment when Bush
> was about to initiate another act of military aggression, this time
> against Iran?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ted Moffett
>
>
> On 9/21/07, *Sunil Ramalingam* <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Ted,
>
> I thought I named Palast's book in my original post, but when I
> checked it,
> I simply said it was a book I'd referred to before.
>
> But there's no question about whether this was political speech, and
> protected by the Constitution. It absolutely was. And there's no
> question
> that it was squashed by state action. Pat Kraut's comments
> notwithstanding,
> there is no 'Impertinance Exception' or 'Inappropriate Manner
> Exception'
> that allows this action.
>
> As Kai pointed out, our politicians represent us. There is no
> excuse for
> squelching free speech just because one doesn't like the way it's
> being
> exercised. Yesterday I read an article quoting a British
> journalist saying
> that if you could get arrested for raising your voice in a political
> discussion, the whole House of Commons would be tasered.
>
> Sunil
>
>
> >From: "Ted Moffett" <starbliss at gmail.com
> <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>>
> >To: Janesta <janesta at gmail.com <mailto:janesta at gmail.com>>
> >CC: vision2020 < vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> >Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:20:50 -0700
> >
> >All-
> >
> >I have not read one comment in this threat regarding what the
> tasered
> >student was asking John Kerry. Maybe I missed it.
> >
> >What I heard in the media, which I have not verified, is that the
> student
> >was holding a book by Greg Palast (in the video you can see the
> student is
> >holding up a book during the incident), dealing with the election
> in 2004,
> >which Palast (and others who have studied the facts carefully)
> asserts was
> >stolen from Kerry via voting fraud and abuse of various
> kinds. The student
> >is questioning Kerry about why he did not do more to address the
> fact his
> >election to the White House was stolen (my wording, not what the
> student
> >may
> >have possibly said).
> >
> >If this is indeed what the student was asking John Kerry, the
> question is
> >important.
> >
> >The student may have been being disruptive in pushing his question
> >"inappropriately" during this appearance by Kerry. But unless
> there is a
> >threat of violence, or vandalism, etc. I don't understand why law
> >enforcement needed to arrest someone using violence for asking
> questions
> >during a public event. But I'm not certain of the total context
> in which
> >law enforcement felt they needed to take these actions. I
> suspect the fact
> >a US Senator was in the room resulted in a high level of police
> security
> >for
> >the event, and they did not want to take any chances of someone
> "out of
> >control" doing harm to Kerry.
> >
> >Everyone knows how managed public appearances have become for
> >politicians. Nothing "off script" is allowed, if possible. Some
> >politicians
> >screen everyone at their public appearances before they are
> allowed in.
> >The
> >audience is thus pre-selected to avoid protest. George W. Bush
> is well
> >known for "public" appearances of this sort
> >
> >Ted Moffett
> >
> >
> >On 9/21/07, Janesta < janesta at gmail.com
> <mailto:janesta at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't care if the guy did this 1000 times before. Violence
> should
> >NEVER
> > > be used to silence the opinion of another.
> > >
> > > Janesta
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/20/07, Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com
> <mailto:ophite at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 9/20/07, Pat Kraut < pkraut at moscow.com
> <mailto:pkraut at moscow.com>> wrote:
> > > > > On this kids web site he has other occasions when he has
> 'diturbed
> >the
> > > >
> > > > > peace' and asked for all he got. His mic had been turned
> off by
> > > > someone who
> > > > > thought he had gone on long enough so it wasn't just the
> cops who
> > > > thought he
> > > > > had pushed his limits. Its just one more example of the
> current
> > > > generation
> > > > > pushing the boundries and grownups being unable or
> unwilling to draw
> >a
> > > > line
> > > > > in manners and behavior.
> > > >
> > > > Pat --
> > > >
> > > > In what universe is being rude punishable through coercive
> use of
> > > > state violence?
> > > >
> > > > -- ACS
> > > >
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