[Vision2020] Substituting Leviticus for Deuteronomy

Thu Sep 20 22:16:33 PDT 2007

Pat asks:  "So, just what is in Leviticus that you think it needs a
reference here???

Let's trade Leviticus for Deuteronomy, chapter 21.

"18: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the
voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have
chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out
unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20: And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn
and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21: And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so
shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and
fear."

I think the situation could be considered analogous, don't you Pat?
Deuteronomy was either written by Moses, (the conservative opinion), or by
multiple authors prior to the Babylonian exile, (the critical opinion). The
time span ranges from 1200 BCE to 500 BCE.  This indicates, to me at least,
that the conduct of the "disruptive" student is not "just one more example
of the current generation pushing the boundries and grownups being unable or
unwilling to draw a line" - it's kind of an old story, at least biblically
speaking.

Rose Huskey

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:14 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

So, just what is in Leviticus that you think it needs a reference here??

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Warren Hayman" <whayman at roadrunner.com>
To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>; "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

Thanks for your eye-opening perspective, Pat. Remind me to re-read
Leviticus!

Warren Hayman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

> On this kids web site he has other occasions when he has 'diturbed the
> peace' and asked for all he got. His mic had been turned off by someone
> who
> thought he had gone on long enough so it wasn't just the cops who thought
> he
> had pushed his limits. Its just one more example of the current generation
> pushing the boundries and grownups being unable or unwilling to draw a
> line
> in manners and behavior.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 7:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>
>
> I don't know what to think about this.  I'm usually one to jump on the
> authorities in cases like this, but now after watching the video on
> youtube (for some reason the video link in the story didn't work for
> me), I'm unsure.
>
> I think the police, which I assume were campus security, were a little
> quick to try to remove him from the microphone and from the room.  I
> think that much of what he did at the end was theatrics.  I'm sorry, but
> when the police are moving you physically from the room (rightly or
> wrongly), you don't resist, you don't keep acting less and less calm,
> and you don't stupidly keep telling them "not to tazer me, man".  You
> comply, and you fight it in court.  When they have you on the ground and
> you won't give them an arm for the handcuffs they have only a limited
> number of options.  Physical force which can result in a dislocated
> shoulder, bruises, etc, or the tazer.
>
> Kerry did say that he would answer the question, and that they needn't
> do what they were doing.  He mumbles, yes, but I did hear him say that.
> It's not like he answered the question by waving at the cops to take him
> away.
>
> I've also read elsewhere that the person involved (I forget his name)
> was well-known for these kinds of things.  He likes to show up in public
> places and disrupt things.  I suppose the campus cops would think of him
> as an "agitator".  Many of the other students apparently think of him as
> a kook.
>
> I am convinced that if he simply allowed them to remove him he wouldn't
> have been tazered.  They waited until he was on the ground and still
> thrashing around and acting up and warned him that they would use the
> tazer several times.  I think the police should review their rules for
> removing people from microphones at public events, but after they made
> the decision to remove him they didn't appear to me to use force until
> they had to.
>
> That's not to say that the "tazer problem" (i.e. using it in situations
> when it shouldn't be used because it is non-lethal) isn't a real
> problem.  I just don't feel much sympathy for this guy.  He got his
> point out there.  Call it a win and sit back down, or let the cops lead
> you out of the room with something of your dignity left intact.
>
> Paul
>
> Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
>> http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts09192007.html
>>
>> Above is the address of an article about a speech yesterday by John
>> Kerry.
>> A student gets up and asks a question (quoting from a book I've mentioned
>> here) and ends up getting grabbed by police officers and tasered in front
> of
>> the crowd while Kerry drones on.  It's truly bizarre; the video link at
> the
>> end of the article shows it all happening.
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>>
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> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 9/17/07
> 1:29 PM
>
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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 9/17/07
1:29 PM

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================