[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 15, Issue 64
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Thu Sep 20 12:01:00 PDT 2007
It was sung by Hugh Moffatt, although Bobby Bare had a better voice for the
song (at least in my opinion).
http://www.tomandrodna.com/Songs/PTL_and_SMTM.mp3
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
-----Original Message-----
From: lfalen [mailto:lfalen at turbonet.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:39 AM
To: Tom Hansen; 'donald edwards'; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 15, Issue 64
I don't remember the words, but Bobby Bear had a song Titled I think "Praise
the Lord and Send me the Money"
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Tom Hansen" thansen at moscow.com
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:31:59 -0700
To: "'donald edwards'" donaledwards at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 15, Issue 64
> Excellent song and extremely appropriate!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVwto8Xk2o4
>
> Come on, Dougie. You know the words. Sing along.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college
> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of donald edwards
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 1:06 PM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 15, Issue 64
>
> Money, Money, Money
>
> This sermon brings back memories of a time long ago back in junior high
> school when I as a small lad was watching a hilarious video on Mtv about
> preachers and greed. Here's a synopsis of the lyrics from that song.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Send Me Your Money
>
> Lights, camera, silence on the set
> Tape rolling, 3-2-1-action
> Welcome to the church of Suicidal [Tendencies]
> We'll have a service and wonderful recital
> But before we go on, there's something I must mention
> An important message I must bring to your attention
> I was in meditation and prayer last night
> I was awakened by a shining bright light
> Over head, a glorious spirit
> He gave me a message and you all need to hear it
> "Send me your money", that's what he said
> He said to "Send me your money"
> Now if you can only send a dollar or two
> There aint a hell of alot I can do for you
> But, if you want to see heaven's door
> Make a check out for five hundred or more
> "Send me your money", do you here what I'm saying?
> "Send me your money"
>
> Here comes another con hiding behind a collar
> His only god is the almighty dollar
> He aint no prophet, he aint no healer
> He's just a two bit goddamn money stealer
> Send me your money
> Send it, you got to send it
> Send me your money
> You hear what I'm saying?
> Send it, send it
> Send me your money
> Now how much you give is your own choice
> But to me it's the difference between a prosche and a Rolls Royce
> I want you to make it hurt when you dig into your pocket
> I want you to make it hurt!
> We'll take cash, we'll take checks
> We'll take credit cards, we'll take jewelry
> We'll take your momma's dentures if they got gold in them
> So whose gonna be the next king of the fakers
> Whose gonna take the place of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker?
> See my momma, she didn't raise no fool
> Cause you can't put a price on a miracle
> Amen
>
>
> >From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> >Reply-To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 15, Issue 64
> >Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:27:32 -0700
> >
> >Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > vision2020-request at moscow.com
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
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> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC (J Ford)
> > 2. Dougie goes phishing for money, money, money (J Ford)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:42:09 -0700
> >From: J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Message-ID: <BAY105-W1792B76D7A92C8F13E3337AFBC0 at phx.gbl>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> >
> >"None is as blind as the one who refuses to see the truth in front of
him."
> >
> >Take the blinders off, Mr. C.
> >
> >J :]
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:12 AM
> > Subject:
> > Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
> >
> >Which absolutely proves what I was told earlier this week -
> > Rick Beebe DID know who was buying his property across from
Gritman.
> > He figured if he played the poor fool that was jerked off by
Dougie
> >and
> > his bunch, people would look the other way on his other projects.
> >In
> > other words, he's playing the "sympathy card". Too bad, Rick -
> > people so know
> > what you did and are NOT happy.
> >
> >Wonder if the IRS is aware
> > that you're back to your old tricks?
> >
> >J :]
> >
> >: privatejf32 at hotmail.com;
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:18:46 -0700
> >Subject:
> > Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
> >
> >
> > So what, exactly is there to be unhappy about? A group
> > with money to spend and a group with property to sell got together
> > and transacted a mutually agreeable business deal. I don't think
that
> > it's currently necessary to poll the community before finalizing
this
> > kind of arrangement, at least not yet. With out a change in city
> > governance this November it's hard telling what we might end up
being
> > subjected to. It's not difficult imagining Nancy, queen of the
naught
> >and
> > her like minded henchmen being only too happy to review private
> >transactions
> > and withhold their stamp of approval from anything that doesn't meet
> >their
> > anti growth, anti business, left wing agenda.
> >
> > g
>
> >
> >
> >
> > From: dfrench at moscow.com
> >To: whayman at roadrummer.com;
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:34:11
> > -0700
> >Subject: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse
> > LLC
> >
> >
> > The answer is:
> >
> > Larry Germer, Richard Beebe, Jeff Eisinger, Karl
> > Tyler, according to records filed with the Idaho Secretary of
> >State
> >
> > (here's the link:
> >http://www.accessidaho.org/public/sos/corp/search.html?>
> >Does anyone know who
> > Developers of the Palouse, LLC is?
> >
> >Warren
> > Hayman
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:28:02 -0700
> >From: J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Dougie goes phishing for money, money, money
> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Message-ID: <BAY105-W27A9B2B0259DA2B3FCCB85AFBC0 at phx.gbl>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Didn't I say it earlier? Dougie is asking his people to GIVE, GIVE,
> >GIVE as he strives to make up coffers to support his many projects. Take
> >a look at this week's sermon entitled "Money, Money, Money".
> >
> >
> >
> >PLEASE take particular note of his admonitions re: tithing. Do it or
> >suffer the wrath of GOD!!!!
> >
> >
> >***Question for those who are into Bible-ese: Can you verify what Dougie
> >is
> >saying regarding such sayings as "The next expression ?if your eye is
> >single? is a Hebrew idiom for ?if you are generous.?? *I* personally
have
> >never heard this kind of explanation before.***
> >
> >
> >
> >Money, Money, Money (Doug Wilson Sermon for Sept 16 2007 as presented on
> >his church website; emphasis questions added in red...dare you to answer
> >Dougie....didn't think you would.)
> >
> >
> >
> >INTRODUCTION:
> >
> >
> >
> >For many Christians, the practical issues surrounding money are a real
> >headache. There are
> >
> >questions about acquiring it, about managing it, and about giving it
away.
> >But
> >we are not left
> >
> >without instruction?we are to tithe, give, manage, provide, and enjoy.
> >(Boy, is this skewed or what!?)
> >
> >
> >
> >THE TEXT:
> >
> >
> >
> >?Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth
> >corrupt, and where thieves break through
> >
> >and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither
> >moth
> >nor rust doth corrupt, and where
> >
> >thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there
> >will
> >your heart be also. The light of the body
> >
> >is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be
full
> >of
> >light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body
> >
> >shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be
> >darkness,
> >how great is that darkness! No man can
> >
> >serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other;
or
> >else
> >he will hold to the one, and despise the
> >
> >other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon? (Matt. 6:
> > 19-24). (Isn't this supposed to be in
> >reference to Jesus being the Treasure and service
> >
> >to God what we are supposed to be "laying up in Heaven."?)
> >
> >
> >
> >OVERVIEW:
> >
> >
> >
> >Jesus teaches us that His followers must not be graspers. (Well, except
if
> >your name is Doug Wilson, I guess.)
> >
> >They are not to be all about acquisition. (Except if your name is Doug
> >Wilson or Mike Hoffman?
> >Seems to me
> >
> >they are all about "acquisition" these days.)
> >
> >Do not lay up earthly treasures (v.19). You are putting your treasure in
an
> >insecure place.
> >
> >Rather, lay up treasure in heaven?the most secure investment possible (v.
> >20).
> >Jesus tells us
> >
> >that our heart will be wherever our treasure is (v. 21). From this we can
> >tell
> >where our treasure
> >
> >is?where the heart is. The next expression ?if your eye is single? is a
> >Hebrew
> >idiom for ?if
> >
> >you are generous.? If you are generous, your whole life is blessed (v.
22).
> >Having an evil eye
> >
> >meant that you were miserly. If you are a miser and a tightwad?how great
is
>
> >the
> >darkness (v.
> >
> >23). The issue is mastery, possession. God must be your master, and your
> >money
> >must be a
> >
> >fellow servant, along with you. (Cite this one for me,
> >will ya Dougie...where does it say this in the Bible?)
> >
> >
> >
> >THE FIRST MEASURE:
> >
> >
> >
> >Begin with the tithe, God?s tax. The tithe is not extortion money paid to
> >God,
> >so that you get
> >
> >to keep ninety percent. Rather, it is tribute money, demonstrating that
you
> >understand that He
> >
> >really is the possessor of all of it. The tithe is rendered as your way
of
> >saying that you understand
> >
> >yourself to be simply a steward of the remainder.
> >
> >Some wonder about the tithe in the times of the New Covenant. First, we
> >believe
> >that the Old
> >
> >Testament is binding unless the New Testament says that it isn?t (Oh,
> >yeah? Then what about the part
> >
> >of the New Testiment that specifically states?as we see, for example,
> >with
> >
> >animal sacrifices. But if a biblical principle is not fulfilled in the
New,
> >then our operating
> >
> >assumption is that it continues. But for those who find this
insufficient,
> >demanding that a
> >
> >practice must be explicitly taught in the New for Christians to be bound
to
>
> >it,
> >let us consider 1
> >
> >Corinthians 9:13-14. The Old Testament priests lived off the tithe, and
St.
> > Paul requires that
> >
> >those who preach the gospel should live in the same way. (Well, not
> >exactly, Doug... What Paul says is: "12But we did not use this
> >right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the
> >gospel
> >of Christ. 13Don't you know
> >that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and
those
>
> >who
> >serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14In the same
> >way, the Lord has commanded that
> >those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the
> >gospel.15But I have not used any of
> >these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such
> >things for me. I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of this
> >boast. 16Yet when I preach the gospel, I
> >cannot boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach
> >the
> >gospel! 17If I preach
> >voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging
> >the
> >trust committed to me. 18What
> >then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it
> >free
> >of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it.")
> >
> >But to conclude this point, let me commend you, the saints of Christ
> > Church, as a tithing
> >
> >congregation. If you take our church?s annual budget, multiply it by ten,
> >that
> >should give you
> >
> >the total amount earned by our families. Divide that number by the number
> >of
> >our households,
> >
> >and that should give you the average annual salary?which, if it came out
as
>
> >6K
> >a year,
> >
> >would indicate a big spiritual problem. But the budget of our church
> >indicates
> >very clearly a
> >
> >tithing church. The only exhortation here is to ?do so more and more? (1
> >Thess.
> >4:10). (Um, this verse is about brotherly love, not about giving to the
> >church: "9Now about brotherly love we do
> >not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to
> >love
> >each other. 10And in fact,
> >you do love all the brothers throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you,
> >brothers, to do so more and more. 11Make it your ambition to lead a
> >quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just
as
> >we
> >told you, 12so that your
> >daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be
> >dependent on anybody.")
> >
> >
> >
> >A SECOND MEASURE:
> >
> >
> >
> >The Bible links the first table of the law to the second. How can we say
we
> >love God, whom we
> >
> >have not seen, if we don?t love our neighbor, whom we have seen (1 Jn.
> >4:20)? In our text, Jesus
> >
> >mentions the need for personal generosity. (Where is
> >this text? I have read and re-read both Chapter 4 and 5 and can not
> >
> >find this in either chapter...please point this out so we can all see it,
> >Dougie.) That would include donations of time, work, money,
> >
> >gifts, advice. All of these are ways of giving yourself away. As God has
> >given
> >to us (freely),
> >
> >and we have returned it to Him (freely), let us also be generous to those
> >assigned by God to us
> >
> >in that noble office of ?neighbor.? Is the first instinct to hoard? Is
the
> >first instinct to say no? Is
> >
> >the first instinct ?The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that
> >watereth
> >shall be watered also himself ?
> >
> >(Prov. 11:25). ?He that hath a
> >bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to
> >
> >the poor? (Prov. 22:9). (Em, ok...question:
> >Do you consider your "church" to be poor?) ?The
> >instruments also
> >
> >of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor
with
> >lying words, even when the needy speaketh
> >
> >right. But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things
shall
>
> >he
> >stand? (Is. 32:7-8)
> >
> >
> >
> >A THIRD MEASURE:
> >
> >
> >
> >The second and third must go together, and they must go together in this
> >order?generous
> >
> >and then shrewd. Not shrewd and then stingy. The right kind of shrewdness
> >is
> >demonstrated in
> >
> >an understanding of the source of God?s blessing, and wisdom in the
> >management
> >of it. You
> >
> >give to get, in order to be able to give again. A foolish man can be
> >?generous?
> >if he drives
> >
> >down the road, throwing money out the window. But that is not true
> >generosity.
> >?Be thou
> >
> >diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds?
> >(Prov.
> >27:23). Put this
> >
> >another way?know the value and importance of what you are giving away,
and
> >give
> >it away
> >
> >anyway. As John Wesley put it once, ?Earn all you can, save all you can,
> >give
> >all you can.? (He, as were Christ
> >
> >and His Workers (Paul, Peter, etc.) was talking about giving to those in
> >need
> >in the community - NOT to one building fund
> >
> >after another that benefits only those giving...i.e. to Christ Church
which
>
> >will
> >be the ONLY beneficiary.)
> >
> >
> >
> >A FOURTH MEASURE:
> >
> >
> >
> >We want to provide for our own, and then be generous with whatever is
left
> >over. This is backwards.
> >
> >You are to be generous in such a way that you are more than able to
provide
>
> >for
> >those that
> >
> >God has given you responsibility for. Yes, you must provide, and to not
do
> >so
> >is to be worse than
> >
> >an infidel (1 Tim. 5:8). But what do I mean?in such a way? Seek first the
> >kingdom and all these
> >
> >things will be added to you (Matt. 6:33). (ACTUALLY, that verse says, in
> >whole: 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of
> >the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he
> >not
> >much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
> >
> > 31Therefore
> >take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or,
> >Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
> >
> > 32(For
> >after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father
> >knoweth
> >that ye have need of all these things.
> >
> > 33But
> >seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these
> >things shall be added
> >unto you.
> >
> > 34Take
> >therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought
for
> >the
> >things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. ? Or did
> >you forget this part of that
> >chapter, Dougie?)
> >
> >
> >
> > And you should
> >prayerfuly consider that this encompasses
> >
> >more than just next month?s rent. ?A good man leaveth an inheritance to
his
> >children?s
> >
> >children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just? (Prov.
> >13:22). (Not sure what you?re saying here?should they
> >consider their children first or what?
> >Seems kinda contradictory to me?.)
> >
> >
> >
> >AND LAST . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >Enjoy yourself. God gave you this wealth so that you would enjoy it (1
Tim.
>
> >6:17). The
> >
> >idolater has enough food but no taste buds. ?But thou shalt remember the
> >LORD
> >thy God:
> >
> >for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish
> >his
> >covenant which he
> >
> >sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day? (Dt. 8:17). ?And there ye
shall
> >eat
> >before the LORD
> >
> >your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and
> >your
> >households,
> >
> >wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee? (Dt. 12:7). ?Because thou
> >servedst
> >not the
> >
> >LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the
abundance
>
> >of
> >all things;
> >
> >Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send
against
> >thee, in hunger,
> >
> >and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall
> >put a
> >yoke of iron upon
> >
> >thy neck, until he have destroyed thee (Dt. 28:47-48). (So, in other
> >words,
> >give to the church or suffer the consequences?
> >Wow! You really, really believe
> >God is that demanding and cruel? Boy, do
> >you worship a meany or what?!)
> >
> >
> >
> >J :]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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