[Vision2020] Water Concern?

jeanlivingston jeanlivingston at turbonet.com
Sat Oct 20 10:01:33 PDT 2007 

Matt, I'm surprised to hear you repeating falsehoods; usually you have
been fair about things and not so blind politically as to make such
obviously false and uninformed comments.  Allow me to correct your
erroneous statement that "MCA conservationists [yes, you are correct
in calling us "conservationists"] don't like it [a proposal to build a
reservoir]."


Here is what the MCA web site, http://www.moscowcivic.org/ , says
about our position on water:  we support a reservoir, fifth paragraph
of text under "What the MCA Stands For."

"Supporting water conservation measures and the development of a city
reservoir, while opposing injection of our aquifers, thereby
protecting our diminishing aquifers while providing renewable water
resources to support growth in Moscow."

Further,
http://www.moscowcivic.org/communityissues/watersolutions.html , our
Water Solutions page says this:

"Water issues are critical ones for the future of our community in
both Moscow and the entire Palouse region. The Moscow Civic
Association is seeking to be a leader in trying to identify potential
solutions to our complex water problem by hosting public forums on the
topic and continuing to serve as a facilitator to maintain public
awareness and pressure on public officials to meaningfully address
this problem. Conservation of our limited water supplies, and perhaps
even bolder initiatives (such as potentially building a reservoir) are
all things we must consider if we are to preserve the water we need
for public and business use in our community." 

Moreover, our "Water Solutions" page includes avariety of documents
that tracks our efforts in this important area, and you will see that
we, not the GMA, are the ones who have done something positive on this
issue, including hosting a forum on whether and how to build a
reservoir.  The Daily News followed our lead and called for a
reservoir feasibility study by the City in a link that is also on our
"water solutions" page.  The Council has since budgeted for and is
working on a reservoir  feasibility study.  You can thank the MCA
and our positive efforts on this for that development.  


You are therefore also wrong regarding the incumbent candidates, who
have supported and funded a feasibility study for a reservoir.  They
are working for it, too.  Challenger Evan Holmes has expressly stated
that the time for study is past, because no matter what, we know we
have enough water "issues" to know that we need to pro-actively work
toward a solution, and we ought to startsocking money away in a
capital account for use on whatever solution we ultimately decide to
pursue, because it will be expensive.  


At the AARP forum  on Friday, Walter Steed reacted to the brouhaha
over the GMA candidates' reported differences on water that were
expressed at Wednesday's Chamber of Commerce forum.  I think one of
Walter's suggested possible "fixes" for our water problem -- pumping
water from the Snake River -- is laughable in terms of feasibility and
expense, but even if that's the direction that we choose to go, it is
obviously expensive and we ought to be funding these water solutions
now and not just "studying" further.  Significantly, Walter did not
express support for funding efforts to build a reservoir or pump
water from the Snake; he proposed to study the aquifers more, before
undertaking more serious efforts to fix the problem.   


The MCA has been the leader on this,and the GMA, perhaps begrudgingly,
is slowly following.  


Bruce Livingston


P.S.  Bill Lambert is a good man, too, and I am glad that he also
supports the reservoir feasibility study.  I also commend Paul
Kimmell and Jon Kimberling for their "Water Summit" efforts, as that
valuable forum has been very helpful in educating the entire
community, including the GMA and their candidates, and of course, the
MCA's as well.






-----Original message-----
From: Matt Decker mattd2107 at hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:34:32 -0700
To: J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?

> 
> J,
> 
> Its purified but not to the extent of potable. Then you must run a
separate line to wherever you need it. 
> 
> I have brought up this idea but doing it from a resevoir. Not as
muchcleaning of the water, just filtration. Some how our MCA water
conservationists don't like it. But people like Lambert and the GMA
DO.
> 
> From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:53:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But would/is it worth the intial cost(s)? The one community in
Washington that I heard about seems to feel it is....anyone know for
sure how this is even done and what the water quality is like? I mean,
ew! it sounds unhealthy. Obviously, it must be tested and seen to be
ok, but - I donna know........ 
> 
> J :]
> 
> 
> From: mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:32:13 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J,
> 
> Great idea but a lot of money.
> 
> matt
> 
> From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:50:11 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are communities that are "re-using" waste waters for things
like watering of lawns and in one community I know of, to recycle for
drinking water. Not so sure about that one, but at least there are
systems out there that attempt to do something besides just letting
the water flow on by and out.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> J :]
> 
> 
> > Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:59:12 -0700
> > From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> > To: jeffh at moscow.com;jampot at roadrunner.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> > 
> > Thanks Jeff for your excellent post. Like you said all of the
candidates are good civic minded people. Lets debate the issues not
personalities. Water conservation is a good policy- water on odd,even
days, in the evening, take shorter showers and many other water saving
practices should be used. With good conservation practices moscow
should be able to support economic development not just housing and
retail. Ways to capture run off should be explored.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Jeff Harkins jeffh at moscow.com
> > Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:14:23 -0700
> > To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> > 
> > > Gary, good to see your clear and concise comments making a 
> > >difference. Here are some of my observations.
> > > 
> > > Ideologues are all around us in this region. They have no
solution 
> > > to resolve the water issue (or much of any other issue) but they

> > > follow the same tactic used since the creation of the MCA; fear,

> > > intimidation, heckling and smearing are their tools. If you
support 
> > > an organization like GMA, you are publicly chided for supporting

> > > candidates endorsed by them. In other words, you don't know as
much 
> > > as the MCA people and therefore your voices and your opinions
don't matter.
> > > 
> > > Frankly, all the candidates for city council seem to be honest, 
> > > sincere and interested in doing what they perceive to be the
best 
> > > things for the community. But when the actions of supporters
and/or 
> > >candidates sense a challenge to their "vision for Moscow", rather

> > > than debate the issue, they turn on the candidate and chide them
for 
> > > their opinions. Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed and Dan Carscallen
are 
> > > all honorable men. They have spent most of their adult lives in
this 
> > > community. They have a right to be respected - for their views,
for 
> > > their willingness to step up to the challenge of city council
and for 
> > > their willingness to engage in honorable debate with candidates
that 
> > > they don't agree with.
> > > 
> > > In a similar vein, Linda Pall, Aaron Ament, Tom Lamar and Evin
Holmes 
> > > are honorable folks. Most have spent a good portion of their
adult 
> > > lives in Moscow and they should be respected for their
willingness to 
> > > serve our community.
>> > 
> > > To indict any of them for their opinions and views on a topic
simply 
> > > validates that our citizens should not vote for the candidate
the 
> > > indictors are supporting but should vote for the candidate being

> > > scalloped. Issues and answers and policies such as the water 
> > > question are founded first in science. Let the science do the 
> > > talking - report studies, provide links to the scientific
evidence, 
> > > establish the proposition of your hypothesis and then talk about

> > > strategies for solutions. It is "very difficult" to resolve a 
> > > problem with rhetoric and finger pointing (Joe and Bruce, you
are 
> > > encouraged to think about this very carefully).
> > > 
> > > This coming election will say a lot about our community and
about the 
> > >future we chart for ourselves. It is time for the hand-wringers
to 
> > > move to the sidelines. We need decisive, thoughtful and
forthright 
> > > leadership to guide us through the challenges that lay ahead.
Will 
> > > we have a community that can support our children and the
children of 
> > > our children? Will we be able to welcome new residents with a
bundle 
> > > of opportunities that entices them to stay or will we winnow
them out 
> > > - because they don't fit into our lifestyle? Will we have the
type 
> > > of community that encourages entrepreneurs to come here and risk

> > > their investment capital here or will we worry ourselves to
death 
> > > over whether or not this business or that business is 
> > > "acceptable"? What I have learned from listening to the forums
this 
> > > past couple of years isthat even if Santa Claus wanted to move
his 
> > > operation here, there would be at least a handful of people who
would 
> > > object to that move.
> > > 
> > > For my taste, it is time for a change in Moscow.
> > > 
> > > At 07:02 PM 10/18/2007, you wrote:
> > > >Conservation can never be a bad idea but using the water issue
as a 
> > > >club to force other ideological visions on the community where
they 
> > > >don't apply (big box ordinances for one example) is
disingenuous. I 
> > > >don't believe that the GMA endorsed candidates are suggesting
that 
> > > >we make a desperate attempt to suck the aquifer dry before
their 
> > > >terms expire. To suggest otherwise is simply partisan politics
at its worst.
> > > >
> > > >g
> > > >----- OriginalMessage -----
> > > >From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > > >To: "'g. crabtree'" 
> > > ><jampot at roadrunner.com>; "'Joe 
> > > >Campbell'" <joekc at adelphia.net>; 
> > > ><vision2020 at moscow.com>; "'Mark 
> > > >Solomon'" <msolomon at moscow.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:29 PM
> > > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> > > >
> > > > >g -
> > > > >
> > > > > You suggested that perhaps none of the city council
candidates have a firm
> > > > > handle on the water situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is true, wouldn'tit be better advised to err on the
side of
> > > > > caution?
> > > > >
> > > > > Both Lamar and Ament cited PBAC as authorities on the
figures 
> > > > they presented
> > > > > yesterday at the CofC Forum. Krauss cited "something [he]
read somewhere"
> > > > > and Steed simply wants to remove limitations and controls.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Hansen
> > > > > Moscow, Idaho
> > > > >
> > > > > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.
The college
> > > > > students are not very active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."
> > > > >
> > > > > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: 
> > > > vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
> > > > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > > > > On Behalf Of g. crabtree
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:33 PM
> > > > > To: Joe Campbell; 
> > > > vision2020 at moscow.com; Mark Solomon
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> > > > >
> > > > > I assume the statement that includes "...regarding
> > > > > the upper aquifer which if continued to be pumped at current

> > > > levels could be
> > > > >
> > > >> in crisis as soon as 15-20 years from now." is couched that
way to leave
> > > > > room for the obvious corollary?
> > > > >
> > > > > Could be 50-75 years, could be 115-120 years? Could be we
really 
> > > > don't know
> > > > > for sure? Could be that Krauss, Carscallen, and Steed have
as 
> > > > firm a handle
> > > > > on the water situation as any of the MCA candidates do.
> > > > >
> > > > > g
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >=======================================================
> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > http://www.fsr.net
>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >=======================================================
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> > http://www.fsr.net 
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
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