[Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN

Sun Oct 14 16:07:52 PDT 2007

Joe,

  What cracks me up Joe, is that Christ said He is the only way, yet you claim you can believe He is wrong and still be a follower of His. It is contradictory to logic. 

  You are arguing the impossible position, which is self contradictory. You are arguing that He is wrong but you believe in what He says, at the same time. You are arguing blue can be any other color of the rainbow and still be blue. It cannot. 

  "My objection is to Coulter's dogmatic, arrogant 
attitude about the superiority of her beliefs over those of others."

  Seems you are not disagreeing with her delivery, so you reject the validity of the message. What kind of logical error is this Mr. Professor? Seems you are right, this professor does have a lot of work to do in separating his emotions from the validity of the stated premise. 

  Best,

  Donovan  

Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:
  There are so many errors here, Donovan, it is hard to get started. This is part of the reason 
it cracks me up when people like Crabtree make fun of philosophers! That attitude and 
the inability to distinguish cogent arguments from fallacies go hand and hand. There is 
lots of work for philosophers to do, it seems to me!

Whether "Christ is the way to be saved" is essential to Christianity is, as Sue noted, 
subject to interpretation and debate. But that is really beside the point. It is one thing to 
have a belief, it is another to think that your belief is a "perfected" form of someone 
else's. And it is yet a third thing to go to the trouble of saying that your belief is a 
perfected form of Judaism to a Jew on national TV. You keep missing these points.

You can believe whatever you want. My objection is to Coulterâ€™s dogmatic, arrogant 
attitude about the superiority of her beliefs over those of others. This is especially 
irritating since her beliefs are the product of faith, and it is hard to see how faith could 
ever support arrogant dogmatism. Iâ€™m annoyed too because Iâ€™m a Christian and some 
people â€“ Paul for instance â€“ seem to think that idiotic arrogance typifies Christian belief.

Lastly, I don't appreciate the suggestion that I'm not a Christian â€“ nor did I appreciate 
Crabtee's comment about my â€œambiguous religious dispositionâ€. Funny that both of you 
will stand up for a local Pastorâ€™s right to justify slavery and capital punishment for gays 
yet my own beliefs are not worthy of defense. What the hell is wrong with you two?

Unlike Ann Coulter, I consider my beliefs to be a matter between me and God and none 
of your business. And unlike Ann Coulter, I know that faith is not the product of 
fallacious reasoning, so I'm not trying to win folks over with hateful rhetoric.

But don't listen to me! I'm just a philosophy professor!

All the best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold wrote: 

=============
Joe,

She was reiterating the Dogma of Christianity. There is no salvation without the acceptance of Christ as your savior. If you don't understand that fundamental fact, or don't believe it, you obviously are not a Christian. It is core dogma of the religion. 

A mean vindictive person would wish for Jews to die, or parish. She said she wished the opposite, that they would accept Christ so that they can be saved. That sounds like more of a loving statement than a hateful one to me. 

She was not singling out Jews, the commentator was because he was Jewish, she believes that all religions outside of Christianity are in error, as do all Christians. I think you will also find that followers of the Jewish and Muslim faiths likewise believe that followers of any religion other than their own faith is also in error. Christians want all people be saved, even if it is considered politically incorrect to do so. 

Best,

Donovan

Joe Campbell wrote:
Donovan wrote: "Ann Coulter did not say Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, all 
other non-Christians were worthless, or inferior for their beliefs.

She said that Christianity was Judaism "perfected." How does that not entail 
that Judaism is inferior to Christianity?

Sorry but I'm catching up on e-mail!

--
Joe Campbell

---- Donovan Arnold wrote: 

=============
Ann Coulter should say, "Religious conflict and war is good, and that some people should not be saved."?

I think this is rather absurd that people are making a big deal of this. Ann Coulter did not say Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, all other non-Christians were worthless, or inferior for their beliefs. She didn't say other shouldn't be allowed to practice their religion. What she said was that the world would be better off if the entire world was Christian. Which from an empirical point of view, the world would be better off if it was all one religion. Secondly, of course Christians want all others to be Christians, that is a fundamental belief of Christians that only Christians can be saved. It is also the belief of many religions that their religion is the better, and/or only true religion. I am Catholic, the largest and most diverse church in the world, and our creed specifically states that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is the "One and Only True Church". 

If she said all Jews and non-Christians should die, and only Christians are deserving of rights, that would be outrageous. But to expect Ann Coulter's statements to say the opposite is true; the world is better off if it has religious conflict and we should want others to suffer eternal damnation, is suppose to be a more of an acceptable statement?

I think she was kind of set up with that question. It didn't matter which way she answered. 

Best,

Donovan

Ted Moffett wrote:

All-

Ann Coulter's books sell big time... She's laughing all the way to the bank. Carl Westberg is right on the money (no pun intended) about Coulter being "pure show business." The more outrageous her comments, the more publicity. It's so obvious she's deliberately aiming to upset people with extreme political incorrectness. 

What is disturbing is that many people really believe what she advocates. Millions do believe that the US would be better off if we were all Christians. Correct? What is more shocking than Coulter's comments, is that she is supported by a sizable fan base. She definitely speaks to a large percentage of the US public that admires her frank expression of views that they sympathize with. 

She is merely a symptom of a much broader problem in US society.

Ted Moffett 

On 10/12/07, keely emerinemix wrote: This is the same Ann Coulter who dated Joseph Guccione, publisher of that paragon of Christian virtue, Penthouse magazine. Miz Coulter is a nutcase, and I think the orderlies need to find stronger straps.

keely 

---------------------------------
From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
To: joekc at adelphia.net; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:33:59 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN 

Ann Coulter is totally nuts! "Perfected"? "Fast Track"? What is that!!!!??? Who buys this stuff?

J :]

> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:46:38 -0700 
> From: joekc at adelphia.net
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Coulter's Dream - from CNN
> 
> Conservative commentator and best-selling author Ann Coulter may find herself in the midst of a controversy for comments Monday suggesting America would be better if everyone was Christian. 
> 
> Asked by CNBC host Donny Deutsch what the U.S. looks like in her dreams, Coulter said it would look like the Republican National Convention in 2004
> 
> "People were happy," she said, according to a transcript provided to CNN by CNBC. "They're Christian. They're tolerant. They defend America." 
> 
> When Deutsch responded, "It would be better if we were all Christian?" Coulter said "Yeah."
> 
> Deutsch, himself Jewish, continued to press Coulter on her remarks, asking, "We should just throw Judaism away and we should all be Christians then?" 
> 
> "Yeah," Coulter responded, adding "Well, it's a lot easier. It's kind of a fast track."
> 
> "You can't possibly believe that," Deutsch responded. "You can't possibly. You're too educated." 
> 
> "Do you know what Christianity is?" Coulter replied. "See, we believe your religion, but you have to obey. We have the fast track program."
> 
> Later in the interview Deutsch asked Coulter if she doesn't want any Jews in the world, Coulter responded, "No, we think Ã¢â‚¬â€ we just want Jews to be perfected, as they say." 
> 
> "Wow, you didn't really say that, did you," Deutsch said.
> 
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