[Vision2020] A Caution
deb
debismith at moscow.com
Wed Oct 10 21:21:57 PDT 2007
As opposed to Doug's way of gaining members?
Debi
----- Original Message -----
From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>; "Christ's Avengers"
<christs.avengers.bowness.alta at gmail.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Cc: <askreallife at reallifeministries.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Caution
>I am not opposed to any church soliciting new members, but doing it by
>tearing down another church strikes me as not being a very christian way to
>go about it.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
> Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:58:47 -0700
> To: "Christ's Avengers" christs.avengers.bowness.alta at gmail.com,
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Caution
>
>> Christ requires earthly avengers? And from Canada no less. Kind of makes
>> me wonder and NOT in the way that "Giselle" and the "avengers" would
>> probably prefer. I'd love to hear from a real representative of "the
>> fastest growing church in America" and have them explain the
>> effectiveness of blowing into town and having anonymous shills attempt to
>> tear down their competitors ministries. Is that how you've managed to
>> grow at such a prodigious rate? Or, as is far more likely to be the case,
>> do we have some of the same old, same old trying yet again to
>> duplicitously further their little agenda. I'm guessing the latter. Do
>> you guys really think that coming up with endless pseudonyms and
>> fictitious organizations is fooling anyone? sadly, I guess you must.
>>
>> g
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christ's Avengers
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Cc: askreallife at reallifeministries.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:42 PM
>> Subject: [Vision2020] A Caution
>>
>>
>> If Giselle McCourt and the brothers and sisters at Real Life Ministries
>> are really serious about rooting out ungodly pastors, priests, ministers,
>> etc, they need to start with the specious, unordained pastor of the
>> horribly misnamed Christ Church of Moscow, Idaho, to wit, Douglas Wilson.
>>
>> Here are some links as starters that will give them some insight into
>> this driven, dishonest, power-hungry, self-loving, conniver who dares to
>> mock Jesus Christ by pretending to be His Messenger.
>>
>>
>> A thoroughly documented site by true Christians:
>> http://dougsplotch.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Another thoroughly documented site, although by a non-believer, which
>> never-the-less offers a wealth of information:
>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/
>>
>> Of special interest on this site showing the ugly fruits of a ministry
>> hideously departed from the True Way of Jesus Christ:
>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_02027/
>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR%5F2005%5F0250Wight/
>>
>>
>>
>> An extremely revealing site from a Christ Church Apostate:
>> http://poohsthink.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Another well-documented website:
>> http://federal-vision.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Other websites of interest:
>>
>> http://cultists.blogspot.com/
>> http://cleaning-house.org/
>> http://ministrywatchman.com/?p=47
>> http://www.joshualetter.org/slavery/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Not to be ignored:
>>
>>
>> The archives of Vision 2020 where insightful comment can be found:
>>
>> http://vision2020.moscow.com/passpage.asp?ArchiveType=new
>> http://vision2020.moscow.com/passpage.asp?ArchiveType=old
>>
>> The letters of Keely Emerine-Mix, Rose Huskey, Saundra Lund, J Ford,
>> Michael Metzler, and other referents found in those letters clearly
>> expose the wayward Wilson.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christ's Avengers
>> Bowness, Alberta, Canada
>>
>>
>> Some of our Watchwords from Jesus Christ, Matt 7:15 – 20:
>>
>> 15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but
>> inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are
>> grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way,
>> every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A
>> good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19
>> Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the
>> fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> Amen!
>>
>> Giselle's thoughts on this are much appreciated, and I sincerely hope
>> they touch the hearts of those who have been shattered by "pastors" who
>> would usurp the autonomy of the believer in her/his relationship with
>> Jesus Christ. The Gospel is a message of reconciliation, liberation,
>> grace, forgiveness, unbridled love and humility. It is not a means by
>> which to insinuate oneself into the lives and consciences of others. And
>> while community and fellowship are vital for the spiritual health of the
>> believer, the intimate relationship of a man or woman to his or her
>> Savior is the province of their Spirit-informed conscience, not a tool to
>> further the controlling, aggressive and manipulative agenda of anyone who
>> sees himself as the top rung of a hierarchy the Gospel intends to
>> dismantle.
>>
>> If I were confronted with the message and behavior of the leadership at
>> Christ Church and didn't know Jesus Christ, I would run away as fast as I
>> could. It's not a picture of a savior I'd want to have anything to do
>> with. But I do know Jesus, and so I choose to stand toe-to-toe in
>> opposition to anyone who would pervert the Gospel and misrepresent the
>> One to whom I owe my very heart and soul. I'm grateful for Giselle's
>> voice and pray it will reach those who've been hurt by the tsunami of
>> bigotry and pride that is Kirk leadership.
>>
>> keely
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:46:42 -0700
>> From: giselle.wilson.mccourt at gmail.com
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: [Vision2020] A Caution
>>
>>
>> Dear Friends in Christ and Neighbors of Goodwill,
>>
>>
>>
>> This short message is addressed to those of you from other area
>> churches who attended the Launch Service of Real Life Ministries last
>> Sunday and to those that might like to attend further services in order
>> to see if Real Ministries could become the church of your choice.
>>
>> There are certain pastors in this area who look upon their
>> congregations as their personal property. They covetously regard members
>> of their congregations as chattel to be used as they decree rather than
>> as souls to be lovingly guided into the arms of Our Lord Jesus Christ,
>> and into the way of righteousness, goodwill, and eternal salvation.
>>
>> These unholy pastors often resort to dire and to unchristian measures
>> to either persuade or to force members to remain shackled in the ungodly,
>> grasping jaws of their spurious ministries. Hence, I repeat the
>> following from my first message (also appended). (If you know any
>> trapped and struggling Christians caught in such circumstances, please,
>> please help them by forwarding this message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The choice you make of the Christian church to attend is a matter
>> between you and God, only. You do not need to ask or receive anyone's
>> permission to change Christian churches, nor do you owe anyone notice or
>> an explanation if you do. It is a decision between you and God alone.
>> If your pastor or members of your church attempt to coerce or to wheedle
>> you in any way to remain in the grasp of their church – persistent
>> pressure, guilt, promises, visits, telephone calls, threats, spying,
>> extortive tactics, feigned sweetness, feigned concern for your soul,
>> etc, – you are not in a church which preaches the True Teachings of The
>> Lord Jesus Christ and who sincerely loves The Lord Jesus Christ. If any
>> of the above unchristian tactics has been applied or is applied to you
>> please let the good folks at Real Life Ministries know:
>> askreallife at reallifeministries.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Reminder: Great news! The fastest growing church in America, Real
>> Life Ministries, is now in Latah County.
>>
>> http://www.reallifeministries.com/index.php
>>
>> http://moscowreallife.com/home.html
>>
>> Come, join, and start to be united with the community and God
>> through Our Lord Jesus Christ.
>>
>>
>> Real Life Services
>>
>> Sunday, October, 7th 9:00 and 11:00 AM, 3148 Tomer Rd.
>>
>> Directions:
>>
>> From Moscow: Travel east on Highway 8. Turn right onto Carmichael
>> Road. Turn left onto Tomer Road. Continue until you reach Palouse Hills
>> Christian School.
>>
>> From Troy: Travel west on Highway 8. Turn left onto Lenville Road.
>> Turn right onto Tomer Road . Continue until you reach Palouse Hills
>> Christian School.
>>
>>
>> Your neighbor and friend in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
>>
>> Giselle McCourt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This message has neither been officially approved nor sent by the
>> Boards of Directors of Real Life Ministries, Inc., Real Life Ministries,
>> Ltd., Real Life Ministries, Cie. nor any member thereof.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************************************
>> Previous Message
>>
>>
>> Dear Neighbors and Friends in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
>>
>> Please pass this message on to anyone it might benefit.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regardless of the church you now attend, for the sake of your own
>> eternal salvation in Our Lord Jesus Christ, please take some time to
>> consider very carefully in your heart of hearts the following questions.
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor unite the community or does your pastor divide it?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor respect everyone equally or does your pastor have
>> favorites amongst your congregation?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor disdain or ignore the worth of any or many of God's
>> children?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor display way too much self-love?
>>
>>
>> Is your pastor much too fond of rich foods, fine wines, and other
>> voluptuary pleasures?
>>
>>
>> Is your pastor ever vindictive, spiteful, punitive, or dishonest
>> especially towards those with whom your pastor disagrees or those who
>> have chosen in God's name to leave the clutches of his ministry?
>>
>>
>> Would you trust your pastor with your purse? With your real estate
>> agent? With your wife?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor hold wacko ideas like the antebellum slaves were a
>> happy lot and lived in wonderful harmony with their masters?
>>
>>
>> At your pastor's rigid insistence is your church music full of dark,
>> chilling, mournful words and music rather than raising a "Joyful noise
>> unto the Lord" as commanded by the bible? Psalms 100
>>
>>
>> Has your pastor engineered the purchase land for a new church that is
>> not only too small for a church and cemetery, but even too small for a
>> moderately sized church? Did your pastor pay about twice the market
>> value for the land? Is that land now known as "------'s Folly?"
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor demand, coerce, or wheedle so much tithe that it
>> hurts your ability to give what they need and they deserve to your family
>> and community? Have you been asked to sacrifice heavily and to tithe in
>> God's name so that your pastor can pursue his ambitious, mostly personal
>> goals?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor's money management problems and love of his pet
>> projects that serve him more than God often lead to calls for further
>> tithing and sacrifices? Does your pastor try to con and to manipulate
>> you by insinuating that the amount of your tithe is directly proportional
>> to your love of Our Lord Jesus Christ, champion of the poor? Matthew
>> 19:16 - 30, Matthew 25:31 - 46
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor pack the various parts of his ministry's payroll
>> with overpaid relatives and kowtowing friends and their relatives, thus
>> putting even more stress on church finances and leading to further
>> demands for tithes?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor look at new members more as a source of tithes and
>> straw and mud with which to build his empire, rather than as souls to
>> guide into the loving arms of Our Lord Jesus Christ?
>>
>>
>> Does your church have a hidden missing funds problem? If so, is it
>> possible that some of those funds have disappeared into off-shore
>> accounts of which your pastor is the sole signatory?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor flout the civil law? Romans 13:1 – 7
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor ever direct members of your church to perform
>> illegal or sinful activities or to ignore illegal or sinful activities
>> done by church members?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor ever practice flagrant dishonesty in the name of The
>> Lord or in claiming to do the work of The Lord? Is this something Jesus
>> would do?
>>
>>
>> Are your pastor's theological views so far out that were recently
>> rejected by over 96% of a very large body of his fellow Reformed
>> Disciples that carefully examined them?
>>
>>
>> When vehemently defending his version of The Word of God as the only
>> "correct one," does your pastor sometimes appear to be mentally
>> disturbed?
>>
>>
>> Is your pastor more interested in enriching himself and his family
>> then your pastor is in exhibiting himself as shining, living example of
>> the Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ, especially doing this by showing
>> agape towards all, showing humility, showing disdain for wealth and its
>> trappings, and showing great concern and charity for all the poor and
>> unfortunate? Matthew 19:16 - 30
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor have a double standard when it comes to adultery?
>> When it comes to rape and adultery in church schools?
>>
>>
>> Has your pastor encouraged divorces when it would benefit him in a
>> very personal way, or encouraged divorces with unchristian vindictiveness
>> to inflict great pain and sorrow upon certain critics of his actions and
>> claimed beliefs?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor ever appear to place himself on an equal footing or
>> above God?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor place himself as a barrier between you and God?
>> Does your pastor blasphemously style himself/herself as a necessary
>> conduit between you and God?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor blame others for his shortcomings?
>>
>>
>> After having made a serious mistake in judgment does your pastor own
>> up to it, or does your pastor sometimes claim he/she has a secret plan
>> and the congregation must "trust" him/her that eventually all will be
>> right?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor keep important church information secret from not
>> only the congregation, but from some of the elders and deacons too?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor unchristianly operate your church like a secret
>> society in the community rather than like the open arms of Our Lord Jesus
>> Christ?
>>
>>
>> Has your pastor imported child molesters into the community? If so,
>> is it possible that your pastor knew something of their particular sinful
>> proclivities beforehand, but imported them anyway?
>>
>>
>> Has your pastor written a letter supporting leniency for a convicted
>> child molester, one who did dreadful, despicable things to many different
>> children, who attended one of the ministry's schools, and one who defiled
>> the children of the church family with whom he boarded? If so, was that
>> letter hypocritically contrary to your pastor's past preaching, and most
>> important, blasphemously contrary to the requirements of The Word of God?
>>
>>
>> Does your business or relationships with your neighbors suffer
>> because your pastor has – with his outré views, unchristian actions, and
>> harsh, in your face, unchristian polemics – caused many of the community
>> to shun your business or avoid yourself and your family?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor use divisive tactics and polemics to persuade you
>> from listening to the words of your neighbors and dividing you from them?
>>
>>
>> Does the majority of your community regard your pastor as a crook,
>> clown, or perhaps even an anti-Christ?
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor ever bring to mind the following passage from
>> Matthew 7:15 - 20?
>>
>>
>> 15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but
>> inwardly are ravenous wolves.
>>
>> 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from
>> thorns, or figs from thistles?
>>
>> 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad
>> tree bears bad fruit.
>>
>> 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good
>> fruit.
>>
>> 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown
>> into the fire.
>>
>> 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor make up insulting, abusive names for those that
>> question his bizarre views and actions? Does your pastor belittle his
>> critics and assassinate their characters or take other vindictive,
>> punitive measures rather than act like Our Loving Lord Jesus would?
>> Matthew 5:38 - 48
>>
>>
>> Does your pastor attempt to coerce and to wheedle your continuing
>> church membership rather than trust in your faith in God and God-given
>> conscience to guide you to make the right choice of church to attend?***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Does any answer to any of the above questions about your pastor
>> trouble you? Does any answer trouble you especially considered in the
>> light of the Teachings of The Lord Jesus Christ and your God-given
>> conscience? If so, then perhaps it is time for the sake of your immortal
>> soul to consider moving to a true church of Our Lord Jesus Christ in God,
>> and away from a church that will only lead you away from the path of
>> righteousness, goodwill, and eternal salvation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Great news! The fastest growing church in America, Real Life
>> Ministries, is coming to Latah County.
>>
>> http://www.reallifeministries.com/index.php
>>
>> http://moscowreallife.com/home.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Come, join, and start to be united with the community and God through
>> Our Lord Jesus Christ.
>>
>>
>> Real Life Launch Services
>>
>> Sunday, October, 7th 9:00 and 11:00 AM, 3148 Tomer Rd.
>>
>>
>>
>> Directions:
>>
>> From Moscow: Travel east on Highway 8. Turn right onto Carmichael
>> Road. Turn left onto Tomer Road. Continue until you reach Palouse Hills
>> Christian School.
>>
>> From Troy: Travel west on Highway 8. Turn left onto Lenville Road.
>> Turn right onto Tomer Road . Continue until you reach Palouse Hills
>> Christian School.
>>
>>
>> I hope to see you there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your neighbor and friend in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
>>
>> Giselle McCourt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ***The choice you make of the Christian church to attend is a matter
>> between you and God, only. You do not need to ask or receive anyone's
>> permission to change Christian churches, nor do you owe anyone notice or
>> an explanation if you do. It is a decision between you and God alone.
>> If your pastor or members of your church attempt to coerce or to wheedle
>> you in any way to remain in the grasp of their church – persistent
>> pressure, guilt, promises, visits, telephone calls, threats, spying,
>> extortive tactics, feigned sweetness, feigned concern for your soul,
>> etc, – you are not in a church which preaches the True Teachings of The
>> Lord Jesus Christ and who sincerely loves The Lord Jesus Christ. If any
>> of the above unchristian tactics has been applied or is applied to you
>> please let the good folks at Real Life Ministries know:
>> askreallife at reallifeministries.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This message has neither been officially approved nor sent by the
>> Boards of Directors of Real Life Ministries, Inc., Real Life Ministries,
>> Ltd., Real Life Ministries, Cie. nor any member thereof.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
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