[Vision2020] Are you enabling extremism?

[Ted Moffett]

Kai et. al.

I think your focus on environmental terrorism is off the main topic of this
thread, but I will pursue your line of reasoning just a bit, before asking
you to address my point, made earlier in this thread, that was on topic.

I am asking for your documentation of deaths committed by environmental
groups in "terrorist" attacks, because I question the veracity of this claim
that you made.  The ALF is not an environmental group.  The Earth Liberation
Front is an environmental group.

I have not found any documentation that the Earth Liberation Front has
killed anyone in a terrorist attack.

So I am still asking for your documentation....Given you made the claim, you
should have an example at hand.  Asking someone else to prove your point
with evidence seems rather lame.

If you cannot provide it, then just say you cannot provide it...You may have
good evidence to support your claim.  Please offer it.

However, if you really want a logical and fact based dialog on the critical
focus of this thread, clearly stated by Paul when he started this thread,
regarding religious belief promoting extremism, then respond to my post
where I raise the specific example of people who promote the idea that the
Bible or the Koran is the literal absolute word of the creator of the
universe, with very questionable evidence this is true, and act on this
belief in extreme ways.  I can list numerous examples of those who insist
the Bible or the Koran contains the literal word of the creator of the
universe, and use this belief to justify numerous ethical harms: oppression
of women, prejudice against gays, corporal punishment of children, human
rights violating applications of the death penalty, to name a few.

It seems you are trying to "bait and switch" in this thread, by focusing on
what you call "environmental terrorism," without being willing to document
your implication that deaths occurred in such attacks, while ignoring my
point about terrorism resulting in deaths committed by religious extremists
who use their absolute belief in the literal word of God as contained in the
Bible or Koran, as justification.

I will document my claim that people who insist the Bible or the Koran is
the literal word of the creator of the universe, sometimes follow this
belief resulting in extreme terrorist acts... Or have you forgotten 9/11?

Ted Moffett




On 10/1/07, Kai Eiselein, editor <editor at lataheagle.com> wrote:
>
>  Ted,
> I can't believe you've never heard of the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) or
> the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), both of which engage in attacks against
> entities they disagree with.  Perhaps you've forgotten the string of arsons
> that took place from the 90's and into 2001 in Oregon and Washington in
> which the ELF claimed responsibility? Or the arrests in 2006 of several
> members of ELF in connection with those arsons? Anyone who is willing to
> torch a building is willing to kill anyone inside.
> I must have struck a nerve, since you are making demands rather than
> engaging in debate. From your posts about global warming, typhoons and such,
> I know you are perfectly capable of finding information on the web. Quit
> feigning ignorance/stupidity, it doesn't become you.
> I'll not waste my time digging up information that has been well
> publicized and is readily available  just because you demand it.
> Debate is the art of point-counter point, Ted. Not demand, counter demand.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> *To:* Kai Eiselein, editor <editor at lataheagle.com>
> *Cc:* Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com> ; Paul Rumelhart<godshatter at yahoo.com>;
> Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 01, 2007 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Are you enabling extremism?
>
>
>
>  Kai et. al.
>
> Will you please offer examples of what you call "eco-terrorism," engaged
> in by what you described as "on the left are extremist environmental
> groups," that have resulted in deliberately caused deaths by "fanatics
> willing to kill," as you phrased it, such as a terrorist bombing (a road
> side IED, or a car bomb, truck bomb, or bombing of a train or bus, etc.) of
> civilians would inflict?  This is a very serious charge, that should not be
> made casually..  I am not saying there are not examples of this, just asking
> you to provide well founded empirical documentation.  Please provide the
> name of the environmental group, document their affiliation with what you
> termed "the left" (please explain how you define "the left," and why
> they represent "the left," rather than just "left field"), and the date and
> details of the terrorist attack.
>
> Ted Moffett
> ----
> Kai wrote:
>
>
> >  Most notably on the left are
> > extremist environmental groups that engage in eco-terrorism. Using
> > Dawkins
> > line of reasoning, anyone who is environmentaly friendly could be seen
> > as
> > supportive of eco-terrorism.
> > Any belief, taken too far, can result in fanatical zealots willing to
> > kill
> > anyone opposed to their viewpoint.
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20071001/7f2e41ba/attachment-0001.html