[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: School Levy Unfair to Poorer Students
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 11 23:01:52 PST 2007
Donovan,
Some thoughts:
According to the pamphlet some nice person handed me today, the levy
will increase property taxes by approximately $1.18 per $1000 of taxable
net property value. Thus, the wealthy are getting taxed more than the
non-wealthy.
Also, it doesn't seem too odd to me that a larger percentage of the
students in the alternative school are poorer, since one of the reasons
for having the alternative school is to provide a way for students who
have to work to stay in school.
I don't see what the ethnicity of the students matters in this case.
The fact that the children are successful because of a crime free well
adjusted community that is well educated is in large part a result of
previous funding of education in this community. Breaking the chain
will not help things.
Paul
Donovan Arnold wrote:
> "Look. I've tried reason, rational thinking, and facts. I don't like
> to use sarcasm against people. But to suggest that the only troubled
> kids in MSD are at the alt school, and that the funding allocations
> are evidence for a conspiracy against non-college bound students, is
> absurd. And, frankly, as close-minded as it is hard-hearted."--Keely Mix
>
> Who suggested this? You jump to conclusions too often Keely.
>
> Moscow children are generally successful not because of the cash we
> spend on them, but because they enjoy a crime free well adjusted
> community with wealthy parents that are also well educated.
>
> I am simply stating the FACTS that MSD better funds academic programs
> than vocational students, and the fact that alternative students
> are also more likely to be poor and minorities.
>
> 50% of students in alternative school are poor. Where as only 17%
> of students at MHS are poor. That is fact.
>
> Who do you think will be most impacted by an increase in taxes? The
> poor families of alternative students, or the kids with wealthier
> parents?
>
> If poorer students and students that need alternative programs are
> more negatively impacted by the tax increased, shouldn't they get a
> promise from the school district for at least equal aid from the levy?
>
> Debi S. asked, "how does the Alt school, as part of Moscow school
> district, benefit if the levy fails?"
>
> They get to keep the money they earned. And what benefit do they get
> if the levy succeeds, very little, or less than they give.
>
> Now, if MSD promised to fund alternative programs for students to
> succeed, it would be in their interest to support the levy.
>
> To paraphrase Debi, you ask, "How does it benefit poor students to pay
> higher taxes to support the programs for the wealthier kids?"
>
> Best,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
> */keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>/* wrote:
>
> The thing is, Debi, I'm afraid Donovan has stumbled across the
> most phenomenally amazing secret in the MSD locker.
>
> Yes, it's true. All of the students at Moscow High School (as
> well as the junior high and the four elementaries, which he didn't
> include in his argument) are doing, and will do, spectacularly
> well in life. Born -- every single one of 'em -- into the
> nurturing wombs of loving families with abundant finances and
> generous exposure to art and culture, Moscow kids are so utterly
> privileged that only a small -- nay, insignificant -- fraction are
> ensconced in the last-ditch environs of the alt school. To a one,
> every single other student is well-adjusted, ambitious, infinitely
> able to choose from the best of life's offerings, and
> irretrievably on a path gilded with nothing but ease and success.
> Not a one of 'em, bless their little hearts, needs a thing from
> any one of us. And thank God! This bleeding-heart hooey about
> schoolchildren and schools dealing with the effects of drugs,
> broken homes, poverty, domestic violence and emotional famine, not
> to mention the draconian implementation of NCLB, legislative
> disregard for education, and unstable school financing, is just a
> smokescreen for the unbridled greed of those who choose to begin
> their professional careers in a field that pays, at the beginning,
> less than $30,000 a year. I mean, they're in it for the money,
> obviously -- it's not like the public schools benefit any of us in
> any way, and it's not like there are any other, more lucrative,
> careers.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Look. I've tried reason, rational thinking, and facts. I don't
> like to use sarcasm against people. But to suggest that the only
> troubled kids in MSD are at the alt school, and that the funding
> allocations are evidence for a conspiracy against non-college
> bound students, is absurd. And, frankly, as close-minded as it is
> hard-hearted. Every student, period, without exception, deserves
> the very best the schools and community can offer. I have a
> college degree. I have a son in college. My husband did not go
> to college, not a single day. And yet it's his success in
> business, not to mention his intrinsic smarts, that allows me (by
> the grace of God) to spend hours a day not working, but writing
> things like this. Denying necessary funding to the schools is not
> the way to advocate for one child, much less a category of student
> -- as if students could be neatly pegged into categories anyway.
>
> This involves people. Real children. And the passage of this
> levy is necessary. I'll be writing more on "God's will" in regard
> to levy votes as a counter to Wilson's claiming divine
> affirmation, if not reward, in the result of last week's and this
> week's elections. For now, suffice to say that while school
> levies are an imperfect method of providing for "least among you"
> between 5 and 21, it's the best way we have now, and I believe
> that Moscow is the kind of place that will vote again for its own
> children.
>
> keely
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: debismith at moscow.com
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; areaman at moscow.com;
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:33:33 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Levy Unfair to Poorer Students
>
> So, Donovan, how does the Alt school, as part of Moscow school
> district, benefit if the levy fails?
> Enlighten please?
> Debi R-S
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Donovan Arnold <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Dan Carscallen <mailto:areaman at moscow.com> ;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2007 6:28 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] School Levy Unfair to Poorer
> Students
>
> I don't believe I said it wasn't. The question is why is
> the money we give to MSD not divided to give all children
> an equal shake?
>
> Best,
>
> Donovan
>
> */Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com
> <mailto:areaman at moscow.com>>/* wrote:
>
> Paradise Creek Alt school is part of the Moscow School
> District, last time I heard.
>
> DC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Donovan Arnold
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:38 PM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] School Levy Unfair to Poorer
> Students
>
> I believe that the current school levy funding
> ignoring vocational students needs is highly
> discriminatory. If you don't agree me, perhaps these
> statistics will change your mind.
>
> Who in your opinion needs more support from the
> community?:
>
>
>
> *Paradise Creek Regional Alt School*
>
> Rank #102
> Total Students(2005 - 2006*): 32
> Fulltime teachers: 1.5
> Student/Teacher Ratio: 21.3
> Eligible for discounted/free lunch: 16 ( 50 %)
>
> Am. Indian/Alaska Native: 1 ( 3 %)
> Asian/Pacific Islander: 0 ( 0 %)
> Hispanic: 2 ( 6 %)
> African American: 1 ( 3 %)
> White: 28 ( 88 %)
> Unspecified: 0 ( 0 %)
> OR
>
>
> *Moscow Senior High School*
>
> Ranks 11th in state
>
> Total Students(2005 - 2006*): 603
> Fulltime teachers: 34.5
> Student/Teacher Ratio: 17.5
> Eligible for discounted/free lunch: 102 ( 17 %)
>
> Am. Indian/Alaska Native: 10 ( 2 %)
> Asian/Pacific Islander: 16 ( 3 %)
> Hispanic: 18 ( 3 %)
> African American: 10 ( 2 %)
> White: 549 ( 91 %)
> Unspecified: 0 ( 0 %)
>
> It seems like it is a common pattern to better fund
> those with the greatest advantage to began with. Why
> is it too much to ask that the MSD promise to allocate
> more funding so the kids that cannot afford lunch get
> the same opportunities in a public education system as
> kids that can afford to buy lunch everyday?
>
> Best,
>
> Donovan
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