[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: 1 in 4 Homeless is a Veteran

Fri Nov 9 16:37:00 PST 2007

Kris,

  I am not opposed to organizations paying their skilled employees a livable wage. But when an organization is donating more to itself instead of their cause, I think they are defeating their purpose. 

  I would not donate to an organization that took 90% of the money I donated and spent it mostly on a handful of people. 
  There are plenty of worthy organizations that are much more frugal and don't spend more than 50% of their donations on golden parachutes and lush salaries for top level executives. 

  Best,

  Donovan

Kris Freitag <kfreitag at roadrunner.com> wrote:
        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Donovan,

  I was right there with you until you blithely swept up all non-profit organizations taking 90% of their money and spending it on things like salaries etc. I happen to work for such an organization and I must say that our biggest expense is salaries and rightly so. You need professionals to do the work, and those professionals have kids, and mortgages and car payments just like anyone else that they need to be able to pay for. It would be extremely difficult to run solely on volunteers, because the logistics of feeding the hungry, or running a homeless shelter is a full time job. 
  There is that small portion of non-profits who misuse the system and cause all non-profits to have to deal with massive amounts of paperwork to ensure that all money is being spent correctly, resulting in more money spent on administration and less on the cause. 
  Most non-profits live and die on government grants which have stringent strings attached. If they relied on the largess of the general public, they would close their doors.

  Kris Freitag

---------------------------------

  From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:20 PM
To: pkraut at moscow.com; vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: 1 in 4 Homeless is a Veteran

    I think that society as a whole does care, it just doesn't understand the homeless. Many people that are homeless are homeless primarily because of two reasons, they either choose to be that way, or more likely they have some type of mental or physical illness. 

    Homeless shelters are great for people that can obey the rules and deal with the situation of being housed in a homeless shelter. But many times, people with an addiction, an illness, or even a disability cannot tolerate or are not allowed to stay in such shelters. 

    Keeping a family, cars, house, 9-5 job, friendships, and dealing with the rat race of everyday life is not always possible or tolerable for everybody. 

    It is also difficult to give some people help when they themselves refuse help because of an illness or addiction. It takes a lot courage to trust strangers to help you. 

    I just don't see this as having any easy answers. But I don't think it is a lack of compassion that is the problem. Tossing a dollar into the hat of a panhandler might help, but probably won't unless it is utilized properly, which often it won't be when placed directly in the hands of a homeless person. If I see someone hungry, buy them a sandwich, a jacket if cold, etc, I don't give money directly to the homeless. 

    You also have the added problem of "Not for Profit" organizations that take up to 90% of the money collected and use it for things not directly related to helping their cause, like salaries, overhead, etc.  

    Best,

    Donovan 

pkraut at moscow.com wrote:

    I am also aware of the problems of homelessness and constant needyness. 
And I also know that some of them just won't be helped...I know before you 
all get excited that you don't like to face this but it is truth. 
Sometimes agencies just end up enabling folks who might get better if they 
really hit bottom. I am very aware that our local foodbanks face these 
issues everyday and it is tough. It has been happening a long time and 
Bush had little to do with it because some just won't/cannot be helped. 
Before you complain too much by this work for a year in a foodbank or go 
help with community action agencies...it is tough work. 

> I appreciate all that the various charities do for all of us, and 
> strongly encourage those who can to give to them regularly. I do so 
myself.
> 
> However, I reserve the right to choose when, where, and to whom I give 
> my money. If I walk by someone ringing a bell or asking for a donation, 
> I don't feel compelled to comply. I don't feel that I should be treated 
> as an outcast for this, nor do I feel that berating others for not 
> giving every time to every single charity is a good idea.
> 
> Besides, giving money to charities is really treating the symptoms, and 
> not the causes. As you stated, the disregard by the Bush Administration 
> and Congress is behind this particular issue. Not to mention past 
> administrations as well (even if I want to, I can't lay every problem in 
> the world directly and W's feet).
> 
> I try to give to organizations that are working to change the political 
> problems, when I find them. I also tend to give to charities that are 
> putting money into trying to cure a medical condition. But that's just 
> my particular choice.
> 
> I understand feeling upset when someone ignores a person taking 
> donations and you care greatly about that specific cause, but trying to 
> guilt them into giving is just not the answer for a multitude of 
> reasons. Be thankful for what people do give. 
> 
> Paul
> 
> Sue Hovey wrote:
> > Janesta, I read that post and believe I fit the description of one of 
> > those who works for the homeless and neglected, and I wasn't offended 
> > by what Tom wrote. He's right, you know. So many just walk on by, 
> > and the absolute disregard by the Bush administration and Congress is 
> > appalling and heartbreaking. We let war use men and women as fodder 
> > then toss them aside with little regard for their wounds, both visible 
> > and not so visible. 
> > 
> > Thanks for what you do for fellow human beings. Some of the best work 
> > people do goes unseen by the rest of us. Tom is a man of 
> > conscience who has an acerbic bite. That isn't a bad thing, you 
> > know. (An inappropriate place for that voice is when it is unearned or 
> > used on the defenseless--on school kids by teachers, for example.) 
> > You actually have the wonderful gift yourself. So please, let it go. 
> > I don't believe his posting was deserving of your rebuke and the 
> > article that he provided was important, and an indictment against 
> > those who foster such neglect.
> > 
> > Sue Hovey
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Janesta 
> > *To:* Tom Hansen 
> > *Cc:* Moscow Vision 2020 
> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:51 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] 1 in 4 Homeless is a Veteran
> >
> > Tom,
> > 
> > I take GREAT offense to your comment prior to the story you posted.
> > 
> > Do you have any idea what I do for people that are homeless? Do
> > you have any idea what the other fine people on this list, and
> > in our community do? No, you don't, or you would not have posted
> > such an outright ignornant comment.
> > 
> > You want people to give, and have compassion? You might try
> > listing a local, Spokane, or Coeur d' Alene group that is helping
> > these brave, bruised, and broken men and women. Tell us what YOU
> > are doing. When are you making a trip to where the vets are with
> > food, blankets and warm clothing for the winter? Let me know, I'll
> > be one of the first to donate.
> > 
> > Having a member of the family who is mentally ill and homeless is
> > one of the most heart-breaking events that can happen to a family.
> > Sadly, I know this from first hand knowledge.
> > 
> > Janesta
> > 
> > On 11/8/07, *Tom Hansen* <THANSEN at MOSCOW.COM
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Here is another topic for you to consider after you have
> > ignoringly walked
> > by the donation cup on Veterans' day with less concern than
> > throwing your
> > dog a bone.
> >
> > >From today's (November 8, 2007)
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > 1 in 4 homeless is a veteran, study says
> >
> > 1,500 are from ongoing wars
> >
> > Kimberly Hefling
> > Associated Press
> > November 8, 2007
> >
> > WASHINGTON - Veterans make up one in four homeless people in
> > the United
> > States, though they are only 11 percent of the general adult
> > population,
> > according to a report to be released today.
> >
> > And homelessness is not just a problem among middle-age and
> > elderly
> > veterans. Younger veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are
> > trickling into
> > shelters and soup kitchens seeking services, treatment or help
> > with finding
> > a job.
> >
> > The Veterans Affairs Department has identified 1,500 homeless
> > veterans from
> > the current wars and says 400 of them have participated in its
> > programs
> > specifically targeting homelessness.
> >
> > The National Alliance to End Homelessness, a public education
> > nonprofit,
> > based the findings of its report on numbers from Veterans
> > Affairs and the
> > Census Bureau. 2005 data estimated that 194,254 homeless
> > people out of
> > 744,313 on any given night were veterans.
> >
> > In comparison, the VA says that 20 years ago, the estimated
> > number of
> > veterans who were homeless on any given night was 250,000.
> >
> > Some advocates say such an early presence of veterans from
> > Iraq and
> > Afghanistan at shelters does not bode well for the future. It
> > took roughly a
> > decade for the lives of Vietnam veterans to unravel to the
> > point that they
> > started showing up among the homeless. Advocates worry that
> > intense and
> > repeated deployments leave newer veterans particularly 
vulnerable.
> >
> > "We're going to be having a tsunami of them eventually because
> > the mental
> > health toll from this war is enormous," said Daniel Tooth,
> > director of
> > veterans affairs for Lancaster County, Pa.
> >
> > While services to homeless veterans have improved in the past
> > 20 years,
> > advocates hope more will be done to prevent homelessness and
> > provide
> > affordable housing to the younger veterans while there's a
> > window of
> > opportunity.
> >
> > "When the Vietnam War ended, that was part of the problem. The
> > war was over,
> > it was off TV, nobody wanted to hear about it," said John
> > Keaveney, a
> > Vietnam veteran and a founder of New Directions in Los
> > Angeles, which
> > provides substance abuse help, job training and shelter to
> > veterans.
> >
> > "I think they'll be forgotten," Keaveney said of Iraq and
> > Afghanistan
> > veterans. "People get tired of it. It's not glitzy that these
> > are young,
> > honorable, patriotic Americans. They'll just be veterans, and
> > that happens
> > after every war."
> >
> > Keaveney said it's difficult for his group to persuade some
> > homeless Iraq
> > veterans to stay for treatment and help because they don't
> > relate to the
> > older veterans. Those who stayed have had success - one is now
> > a stockbroker
> > and another is applying to be a police officer, he said.
> >
> > The Iraq vets seeking help with homelessness are more likely
> > to be women,
> > less likely to have substance abuse problems, but more likely
> > to have mental
> > illness - mostly related to post-traumatic stress, said Pete
> > Dougherty,
> > director of homeless veterans programs at the VA.
> >
> > Overall, 45 percent of participants in the VA's homeless
> > programs have a
> > diagnosable mental illness and more than three out of four
> > have a substance
> > abuse problem, while 35 percent have both, Dougherty said.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > "I was a soldier.
> > I am a soldier.
> > I will always be a soldier."
> >
> > - Army Veteran Slogan
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > 
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> > http://www.fsr.net 
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> > http://www.fsr.net 
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> 
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
> http://www.fsr.net 
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> 

---------------------------------------------
This message was sent by First Step Internet.
http://www.fsr.com/

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
http://www.fsr.net 
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

   __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
http://www.fsr.net 
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20071109/192c0be4/attachment-0001.html 