[Vision2020] Holy cr*p, Schwaller! [was School District Math]

Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
Thu May 31 22:29:58 PDT 2007

Dr. Crabtree,

I'm very offended! Do you think I would hang out at a place that sold beer for $5? How much do you think philosophers make? $1 with your own mug and $1.25 otherwise.

Dr. Schwaller would be a big laugh, indeed, if it weren't for the fact that he's got otherwise good and intelligent people like your self completely fooled.

Dr. Schwaller: If you're reading this, I can only be at the One World for an hour tomorrow -- from noon to 1 pm -- for I have to meet with a student in Pullman at 1:30. This shouldn’t be a problem since you don’t exist.

Final note to Crabtree: Nearly all of your posts make the same point: A is a hypocrite because he says X about B even though X applies equally to C and A has said nothing about C!

I've point out a few times that this is a lousy argument. There is not enough time in the day to criticize everyone, so we have to pick carefully. For instance, a lot of people have criticized Schwaller but so far you’ve only replied to Keely and me. Try to get another argument, just for the summer. Please.

Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote: 

Mr. Campbell,

Where are you and Ms. Mix's manners? You two have been courting Schwaller as 
though he were a prancing rock star and totally ignoring the other 
purportedly anonymous contributors to our little list. Just imagine how left 
out poor T. Scimitar, P.Place, B. Herodotus, and last but mostly least J. 
Ford  must feel. You should both know how hurtful it is to see the pretty 
girls be asked to the cotillion but the *others*  have to stay home sobbing 
into their little satin pillows for lack of that oh so important invitation. 
In an attempt to make amends I demand that all the afore mentioned ladies 
appear front and center in New St. Andrews square tomorrow at 12:00 to 
answer for various comments made on this forum with which I disagree and to 
receive instruction from me in proper deportment and decorum from a pleasing 
gcrabtree perspective. When we are finished we will march in an orderly 
fashion down to the One World (& $5.00) Coffee Joint Mr. Schaller and his 
instructor for Dancing and "Atmosphere." Should you refuse to show up (as 
I'm certain you will) I too will discontinue "conversations with you about 
social or philosophical issues on Vision 2020." I can but imagine how 
copiously the tears will flow at that point.

If you find my demeanor pompous and my demands unreasonable or even 


P.S. Mr. Fox if you should happen to read this admonition and invitation it 
will be apparent that we need one more spry male to even up the dance 
partners. If you know of one please send him on down.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 5:11 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Holy cr*p, Schwaller! [was School District Math]

> Holy cr*p, Doug!
> 1/ I didn’t quote anything out of context. People can judge for 
> themselves. You are just throwing out your holy-than-thou cr*p in an 
> attempt to justify using the “Venom 2020” tag for another year and I 
> called you on it.
> Note to readers: “25 cents now, 1.5 million dollars later” is about as 
> illogical of an example of the slippery-slope fallacy as you are likely to 
> find!
> 2/ Of course you won’t meet with me, Doug, because “Glenn Schwaller” does 
> not exist and if you did meet with me that would prove it.
> You say that I want to meet with you so that you can “Prove to me you're 
> not Doug Wilson” but that is not the reason. I want to meet with you 
> because your posts are long on wind and short on logic and I think that I 
> might be able to help if you just gave me a few minutes of your time. I am 
> nothing if not sincere. I have no reason to lie. It is my actual name 
> below and my own reputation at stake. (Perhaps your friends are too afraid 
> to tell you when you've gone too far but I am not.)
> 3/ A few more clarifications to your rampant, harmful rhetoric: I do not 
> think that you are Doug Wilson and I never called you ‘Doug Wilson.’ Nor 
> did I call you a coward. You seem to have a problem with details. You tend 
> to regard all of those you hate as if they were one person. I believe that 
> “Glenn Schwaller” is four different guys, two of whom are named ‘Doug.’ I’m 
> playing the odds and directing this post to someone of that name.
> Nor have I said anything about the Weitz lawsuit. In fact, I agree that 
> vocational training should be adopted by the MSD and I’m sad that by using 
> extortion as the means to justify his end, Dr. Weitz has caused an 
> important set back toward reaching that end. And I’m not alone on this 
> view.
> 4/ I have no intention of continuing conversations with you about social 
> or philosophical issues on Vision 2020. If you want me to listen to you, 
> you have to meet me face-to-face. Again, I realize this puts you in a 
> spot, seeing how you don’t exist, but (a) I spent a lot of time preparing 
> a post that critiqued your views on abortion, which you simply ignored, 
> and (b) your posts are so long-winded and illogical that it pains me to 
> read them. I’d rather meet you face-to-face, so that I can point out the 
> fallacies as they go and spare the Vision 2020 readers further long-winded 
> posts of my own.
> I’ll be at the One World Café from noon to 2 pm tomorrow. Doug Farris, who 
> I actually like, imagines that I’m simply waiting for you. I know you won’t 
> show but I have plenty of work to do and I enjoy the atmosphere.
> All the best, Joe
> -----------------------------------------
> Mr Campbell,
> There seems to be a pattern in this venue to select a key point or
> phrase in a post and present it out of context.  I'm probalby guilty
> of that as well, but I attempt to avoid doing so purposefully.  That
> pattern seems a bit illogical to me, but hey, I haven't been teaching
> logic for 25 years . . .
> You seemed to have missed or neglected I mentioned in my post that,
> yes - it IS only 25 cents.  To refresh your memory let me quote from
> that post:
> " Well, 25 cents now, 1.5 million dollars later.  It's not the
> case-in-point incident that is so nefarious; it's the precedent it
> sets that can be damaging."
> This is the very issue those who support / agree with / UNDERSTAND /
> defend  Dr Weitze's case are arguing.  Others have written more
> succinctly than I on that topic and I will not belabor it further.
> I beliveve I have explained how I know so much about Mr Sitler.  I was
> reluctant to do so because I was quite certain of the firestorm it
> would produce and the associated accusations / name-calling /
> "illogical" jumps to conclusions which did indeed happen.  And, as I
> suspected, it turned out to be something many of you did not want to
> hear, even after BEGGING me to tell you.  That seems a bit illogical
> to me as well.
> I don't know how long NSA has been downtown because, well, I don't
> know.  I could look it up I suppose, but I didn't think it necessary.
> Against my better judgement, I was not going to address this (it
> struck me as the geek who stole your prom date being called out by the
> high-school bully) but I shall:  I have chosen NOT to meet with you
> because, quite simply, I see no purpose in doing so.  Your primary
> motive seems to be "Prove to me you're not Doug Wilson.  Or Steven
> Sitler.  Or Rush Limbaugh.  Or the anti-Christ."  Where is the logic
> in that?  I could perhaps send a ringer in my place.  Are you going to
> ask to see my driver's license?  My birth certificate?  My green card?
> Pinkie swear?
> You may call me a coward if you wish.  Better yet point your finger
> and say "See!  I told you so!  This proves my point!"  After doing so,
> I would suggest you go dust off that introductory logic text and do a
> bit more reading.  Maybe I should meet with you if for no other reason
> than to give you several copies (you may distribute them to your
> friends) of my favorite bumper sticker:
> Don't Confuse Me With Facts - My Mind Is Made Up
> That being said, for the record:
> 1.  I am NOT Doug Wilson.  I've never met Doug Wilson
> 2.  I am NOT affiliated in any way with NSA, Christ Church, Logos
> School nor anything that (as far as I know) is tied to those
> institutions.  I do, however, frequent Bucers.
> 3.  I am NOT Steven Sitler, (I'm not sure if he's allowed to go inot
> Bucers . . .) nor a friend nor family member.
> 4.  I don't know "where in the public record one may confirm that I
> have "worked for several months with Mr Sitler and other sex offenders
> in our area."  The names of Mr. Sitler's doctors, counselors, and
> therapists are matters of public record."  However, public records are
> not all-inclusive.
> 5.  I'm not even Gerald Weitz
> Schwaller
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