[Vision2020] Rose's Cleaning House & Comments . . . and THANKS, SUE HOVEY!
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Sat May 5 19:24:27 PDT 2007
Ms. Lund, in my current unfortunate position as mongoose I'm afraid I'm
going to occasionally thumb my nose at the voluntary three a day rule and
today is one of those days. You post:
"In most cases, I don't see anything subjective at all about excluding
racism, sexism, homophobia, or anonymity."
I'm afraid I would have to beg to differ. I can see the possibility where
discussion of topics such as gay marriage, reparations or a woman's role in
the ministry or the military, or hate crime legislation could be arbitrarily
censored. We see examples of this quite regularly in public education
settings. Anytime a single person with a strongly held point of view
controls the course of debate it is not a free and open forum for
discussion. If that being "intentionally obtuse" I guess I'm guilty as
charged.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
To: "'g. crabtree'" <jampot at adelphia.net>; "'Art Deco'" <deco at moscow.com>;
"'Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Cc: "'Rose & Don Huskey'" <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>; "'Sue Hovey'"
<suehovey at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: Rose's Cleaning House & Comments . . . and THANKS, SUE HOVEY!
Mr. Crabtree wrote:
"Clearly she intends to subjectively censor the comments made to her blog."
>From Rose's blog, I repeat:
"I welcome your comments, but this is a monitored website and I will not
publish racist, sexist, homophobic, or anonymous remarks."
In most cases, I don't see anything subjective at all about excluding
racism, sexism, homophobia, or anonymity.
Now, if you like the kind of hate-mongering -- and attacks on minor children
-- your pal Dale allows on his blog, that's your choice.
Personally, I found the comments on Dale's blog, as well as some of his
"editorial" comments, reprehensible and irresponsible. For me, the
negativity far outweighed any newsworthy items I might see there.
Different strokes for different folks, which is why I'm looking forward to
reading Rose's blog. I personally will find the lack of racist, sexist,
homophobic, and anonymous comments a breath of fresh air!
You apparently aren't offended by the racist, sexist, homophobic, anonymous
comments on Dale's monologue. Different strokes for different folks.
Do you Get It now? If not, then I can only conclude you're being
intentionally obtuse or I'm failing miserably to communicate clearly with
you. In either case . . . that's my three for the day.
And, since I'm at the voluntary V2020 daily limit, I'm going to add here my
sincere gratitude for Sue Hovey's incredibly excellent and thought-provoking
post last night on Jerry Weitz's lawsuit. Thanks, Sue -- you said it well,
and I was honored to meet you at the Knowledge Bowl!
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke
***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****
-----Original Message-----
From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at adelphia.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 3:29 PM
To: Saundra Lund; 'Art Deco'; 'Vision 2020'
Cc: Rose & Don Huskey
Subject: Re: Rose's Cleaning House & Comments (was RE: It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,)
Ms. Lund, how does repeating Rose's explanation from her site change
anything that I have said? Clearly she intends to subjectively censor the
comments made to her blog. The fact that you think it's swell and done for
the most wonderful of reasons doesn't change the fact that it's what she
claims she'll do and Dale doesn't, period. Now, is this explanation clear to
you? If it isn't, what point are you trying to make, exactly?
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
To: "'g. crabtree'" <jampot at adelphia.net>; "'Art Deco'" <deco at moscow.com>;
"'Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Cc: "Rose & Don Huskey" <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Rose's Cleaning House & Comments (was RE: It's not "cyberstalking"
unless you harass someone,)
Mr. Crabtree,
Here is an explanation that perhaps you *can* understand since you don't
seem to get it from what Rose apparently wrote to you "directly and
personally":
"I welcome your comments, but this is a monitored website and I will not
publish racist, sexist, homophobic, or anonymous remarks. If you won't claim
it, you don't get to say it on my blog. Well, actually, I might publish some
samples of dim-witted emails in order to expose the intellectual and moral
defectives that, sadly, are not all together uncommon in this neck of the
woods. I have never given a fig if others agree with me or not, and I don't
need external affirmation to validate my beliefs, or prop up my sense of
self-esteem. However, I do expect responders to demonstrate civility,
intelligence, integrity, and, it is to be hoped, an abundance of good humor.
Please note: the comments section is not quite ready. I will alert readers
as soon as it is. Thanks for your patience."
Is that any clearer for you??? I hope so!
Kudos to Rose for not intending to allow the kind of hate-mongering Dale
Courtney welcomes!
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
- Edmund Burke
***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of g. crabtree
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:39 PM
To: Art Deco; Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,
I stand (and without a walker no less!) by previously made remarks. Rose's
site does not currently allow comments and she told me directly and
personally that when they were allowed they would be allowed only "within
appropriate parameters" (note the quotation marks, her words not mine)
Dale's site allows commentary and he does not censor the remarks that
appear. When you or Keely make an unsupported assertion it does not
automatically become exposure of lies, but you already knew that didn't you?
I suspect you've been using these sorts of disingenuous tactics since the
Smoot/Hawley debates when you were a somewhat younger crank.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Art Deco <mailto:deco at moscow.com>
To: Vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,
Gary,
Keely has already exposed your lies about Courtney's the nature
web-blots. I only view them when receiving a link from a local person or
from the crackpot tracking service to which I subscribe. You'd be surprised
at how often your hero Cultmaster Wilson and his various toadies show up.
However, I take great, great offense at your statement:
"At your advanced age you shouldn't get so agitated."
I am only 350 or so in locksmith years.
W.
----- Original Message -----
From: keely emerinemix <mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: g. crabtree <mailto:jampot at adelphia.net> ; Art Deco
<mailto:deco at moscow.com> ; Vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,
Ummm, hey? Gary? Rose's blog says she allows comments. Just not
bigoted ones. She gets to decide.
Also, while we're on topic here, I can assure you, as someone
slandered and mocked by Dale Courtney quite regularly over the last four
years, his is not about news with a modicum of commentary. It's just nasty
and snide, with a modicum of respect for actual facts.
keely
________________________________
From: jampot at adelphia.net
To: deco at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 10:29:30 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless
you harass someone,
My goodness, Wayne all those years of bottled up spleen are
certainly making themselves apparent in today's posting aren't they? (what
is it now, 101? You don't look a day over 98 but you are a testament to the
notion that old and grumpy do go hand in hand) Lets address your little
hissy fit in the order that you excreted it.
You take me to task for the sentence:
"Apparently it's more fun to simply broadcast your
irrefutable wisdom to the world and not have to deal with the unpleasantness
of actual debate."
Mr. Courtney's blog is a news/items of interest site with a
modicum of commentary tossed in on the side. Not screeds and lengthy
personnel political rants. A greatly appreciated aspect to his using this
format is that items of interest to him are not directed to and clogging up
the greater groups inbox unlike certain others who shall remain nameless.
In my memory of Dale's posts to the V he did a fine job of
expressing and defending his view points, as did Rose. The difference was
that Dale was the lone mongoose in the viper pit and Rose sang with the
choir. I perfectly understand how being the minority voice can become
tiresome and, eventually, not worth the effort. In conversations I have had
with Dale I have done my best, sorry as it is, to convince and encourage him
to rejoin the fray. Lord knows I would enjoy an additional conservative
voice here to help sing the counterpoint to the rest of ya'lls dreary dirge.
Do I have "distain and censure" for Rose and her new endeavor? Not hardly,
I'm not wild about the fact that it doesn't allow for comments (as Dale's
does) but I have been assured that this is but a temporary thing and will
change "soon." I have been informed that comments must fall within
"appropriate parameters" and this IS a type of censorship I'm not
particularly fond of. I truly fail to see how anything I have posted might
be construed as being in favor of limiting anyone's free expression. You
seem to be laboring under the erroneous and fatuous assumption that Rose and
I are enemies of some sort. Nothing could be further from the truth. We get
on rather well, all things considered and I wish her nothing but the best in
her latest whimsy and I hope that it doesn't suffer the same ignoble fate
that lil' Joannie's did.
Whether I have "exhibited yourself for all to see as a
phony" is for others to decide. What I have been trying to express is my
contention that more light (and heat) is shed in an unmediated, unrestrained
setting and that it's the venue that I, personally prefer (even if it means
having to endure silly fonts & unrestrained use of color) for hashing out
the topics de jour as opposed to having to listen (read) someone hold forth
ad nauseum.
Now hows about you have yourself a nice little nap and try
and get a little more fiber in your diet and see if your cranky and
constipated outlook don't take a remarkable turn for the better. At your
advanced age you shouldn't get so agitated.
g
From: Art Deco <mailto:deco at moscow.com>
To: Vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking"
unless you harass someone,
Well, Gary,
I am surprised that you have the stupidity to
mention and to champion Dale Courtney's web-blots so soon after you wrote
the following about Rose Huskey and others:
"Apparently it's more fun to simply broadcast your
irrefutable wisdom to the world and not have to deal with the unpleasantness
of actual debate."
Are you too busy playing with your keys to see that
Courtney runs his own web-blots in part because he was not able to
effectively defend his positions on V 2020, and so that he may remove
comments that he doesn't like, or remove comments that point out where he
either misquotes, quotes out of context, or quotes incompletely to give the
wrong impression. It's all right for Dale Courtney, but not for Rose
Huskey?
Further, you pretended a few days ago to be
staunchly anti-censorship and a true defender of freedom of speech
"Censorship sucks" were your words. Now you express disdain and censure for
those who dare, like your hero Courtney, to express themselves in a blog - a
decidedly anti-free-expression position on your part.
You sir, have just exhibited yourself for all to see
as a phony, whose writings express a desire to control what others say and
do almost as much as do the cultmaster's!
Wayne A. Fox
1009 Karen Lane
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID 83843
(208) 882-7975
waf at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: g. crabtree <mailto:jampot at adelphia.net>
To: Tom Hansen <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> ;
heirdoug at netscape.net ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking"
unless you harass someone,
I know I'm probably going to regret this but my
curiosity is hopelessly piqued. Just exactly what action did you take that
would serve as a shining example for others to emulate? Is it the thinly
veiled vulgarities in your post? Is it maintaining a hate web site against a
small local protestant congregation? Is it endlessly posting of news tidbits
that you think should be of interest to others? Is it your tireless and
constant monitoring of Dale Courtney's web site? I'd really like to know
what it is so I could thank you properly for your ongoing good works. (once
their identified)
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hansen <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
To: heirdoug at netscape.net ;
vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,
No-Clue -
You keep submitting gutless threats. Is
that all there is to you? My guess is "Yes".
I am going to repeat a comment I made to you
a long time ago:
"SH*T OR GET THE HELL OFF THE POT!"
Loosely translated that means: Be a
FRIGGIN' man for once in your spineless, ignorantly childish life! Crawl
out from under that rock of yours and DO SOMETHING. Either take action or
SHUT the EFF UP!
I have set an example for you to follow when
I took action in the past (and will continue to do so in the future).
Jeesh!
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"Uh, how about a 1-strike law. Death doesn't
seem too extreme for a Level-3 sex offender."
- Dale "Comb-Over" Courtney (August 3, 2005)
________________________________
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of heirdoug at netscape.net
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:17 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,
And I quote, ".... course of conduct
constitute an implied threat."
Wow J.,
That would have to be the best example of
point proving since Joan's "jack-boot-vasectomy-procedure" from many months
past.
There is nothing like being the poster girl
for the Intoleristas! Is there.
D.
I'd tell you go do yourself, but you'd have
to grow some first. Which isn't
about to happen this late in the game, now
is it?
The end.
J :]
________________________________
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