[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Amazonian Deforestation and Global Warming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming

[Paul Rumelhart]

I can't comment on how "left wing" universities are because I am 
apparently biased towards "liberal" thought and I work at a university.  
I can say that I despise the politicization of science.  Global warming 
is a textbook example of this.  Were it not for the pressures from the 
left to frame the argument in such a way that it supports environmental 
restraint *and* the pressures from Big Oil and other nominally 
conservative groups to deny Man's overall importance as a cause the 
scientific community would eventually hash all this out using the 
scientific method.

If I had to describe the general tendencies of the many powerful groups 
in the US right now with one phrase, it would be "gaming the system".  
Gaming the Constitution, gaming the courts, gaming the media, and now 
gaming the scientific method.  I have total faith that the scientists 
employing the scientific method in a truly free environment will 
eventually figure it out.  I don't know how to set up such an 
environment, nor how to fend off the well-funded interests on both sides 
of the aisle.  Any thoughts on that would be welcome.

I do think that lowering our dependence on foreign oil and focusing on 
designing "greener" methods of power generation make sense whether or 
not humans are impacting global warming on a large or a small scale - or 
even whether or not global warming is even happening on more than just a 
short-term scale.

Paul

Tony wrote:

> Ted makes an important point about the political pressures faced by 
> scientists in an academic environment which encourages if not enforces 
> conformity to conventional wisdom.  The resulting group think is 
> hardly conducive to flushing out truth from prejudice and presumption. 
> In such an environment where one's doctoral thesis if it is to be 
> accepted, must tow the left wing, humanity is the root of all evil 
> paradigm, it is obvious how an aspiring scholar might be tempted to 
> slant her research to please those who hold her future in their hands.
>  
> The university is alleged to be a place where a variety of views are 
> thoughtfully considered if not embraced.
>  
> Would that it were so.
>  
> -T
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Ted Moffett <mailto:starbliss at gmail.com>
>     *To:* nickgier at adelphia.net <mailto:nickgier at adelphia.net>
>     *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:16 PM
>     *Subject:* [Vision2020] Amazonian Deforestation and Global
>     Warming:Was:Ed theViking, Greenland, and Global Warming
>
>      
>     Nick et. al.
>      
>     I'm not sure you should defer to my research on methane and other
>     global warming impacts of livestock, given the complexity and room
>     for error on such a difficult subject.  But this interesting
>     analysis that can be read in pdf form at the web link below, that
>     in part examines cattle raising impacts on the Amazon rain forest,
>     might shed light on this issue.
>      
>     I cannot vouch for the correctness of the data and conclusions
>     from this study presented in 1996, especially given the rapid rate
>     of change in that area of the world, indeed, all over our planet. 
>     However, this paper reveals the daunting complexity
>     of environmental studies, while demonstrating the exacting and
>     sobering work that constitutes the day to day efforts of most
>     scientists, who usually don't have the inclination to politicise
>     their work, despite the claims of many that the hundreds of
>     scientists gathering data on global warming have an agenda to
>     slant their conclusions towards alarmism on human induced global
>     warming. 
>      
>     Given that scientists sometimes face political, career, or
>     economic pressures to slant their work, defending the independence
>     of the community of scientists to present their findings without
>     these pressures biasing their efforts, is fundamental if the
>     public is to be accurately informed of major scientific
>     developments that can significantly impact the world at large,
>     such as climate change from human activity.
>      
>     Recently on C-SPAN testimony of NASA climate scientist James
>     Hansen before the US Congress was presented.  He mentioned that he
>     thought the censorship of his scientific conclusions regarding
>     human impacts on global warming, by the Bush administration, was
>     akin to the censorship of science in the former Soviet Union. 
>      
>     http://philip.inpa.gov.br/publ_livres/Preprints/1996/REPLACE-FEM.pdf
>     <http://philip.inpa.gov.br/publ_livres/Preprints/1996/REPLACE-FEM.pdf>
>      
>     -----
>     Ted Moffett
>      
>     On 3/15/07, *nickgier at adelphia.net <mailto:nickgier at adelphia.net>*
>     <nickgier at adelphia.net <mailto:nickgier at adelphia.net>> wrote:
>
>         Greetings:
>
>         I've not seen this message in my in-box, so I'm sending it again.
>
>         I just wanted to verify that my source on methane release from
>         livestock was from the UN's FAO report that Megan cited.
>
>         However, I respect Ted's research and reasoning skills and I
>         would be happy to defer to his judgment on this issue since he
>         has done more research on this than anyone on this list.
>
>         Thanks, Ted, for making it clear that raising beef cattle, no
>         matter how they fart, is a terribly inefficient and
>         enviornmentally disastrous way of getting the protein that we
>         need.
>
>         Nick Gier
>
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