[Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable them...
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Mon Mar 19 07:36:59 PDT 2007
Gawrsh J, I tried to respond cordially and playfully to your fair-minded
post. Fell short I guess -- base thinker and all. I raised 3 toddlers
myself and was trying to make a joke relying on exaggeration.
Oh well.
Later, -T
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable them...
>
> Jeez, guy....do you really have to prove their point of just how base a
> thinker you really are? I know you must be a better person than you
> present here. It seems to me you and your causes would be better served
> and represented if you'd just lay off the crap and sexual references. I
> mean, why go that level when you really don't live there in the first
> place?
>
> Just a friendly suggestion - take it, leave it...whatever.
>
> BTW - I've been raising "toddlers" since I was 8....I'm now close to my
> 50's and STILL have use for the aspirin every now and again. But there is
> no way in God's Green Earth I'd ever trade a year of my raising my
> siblings or children for anything else anyone could come up with - even
> money or a bigger house. Their laughter, tears, accomplishments,
> disappointments and growth is just so worth the effort. However, I have
> also been a paid worker and have worked since I was 10.....and I am a
> college grad. So I can think beyond the home-box....sometimes, more
> clearly and intelligently than some men I could name.
>
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>>To: <debismith at moscow.com>
>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable them...
>>Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:40:48 -0700
>>
>>Debirs, actually I DO get it frequently enough, which is most likely
>>untrue
>>for a nasty and hostile harpy like you. Rest assured, no amount of
>>pleading
>>on your part could induce me to pay your type any attention at all. This
>>pathetic notion of yours that woman "supply" sexual gratification is sad
>>and
>>outdated. You are the one living in the past, as these days satisfaction
>>is
>>a two way street.
>>
>>And you don't have a freaking clue as to the nature of the woman I know.
>>They are hardly the insecure little dough-heads you label them. Fact is,
>>I'd put their intelligence up against yours any day. Judging from the
>>quality of your contributions to this forum, you'd come in last place.
>>
>>Now go unbelt your strap-on and leave me alone.
>>
>>Hugs and kisses,
>>
>>-Tony
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <debismith at moscow.com>
>>To: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:53 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable them...
>>
>>
>> > Well, ToeKnee still just doesn't get it. Sorry, Dude, but a "you have
>>what
>> > I want, and I have to
>> > plead to get it" is just old hat. Men and women may be different in
>> > the
>> > ways they approach
>> > and resolve things, but the idea that women are the ones who feed the
>> > masses, care for the
>> > kids, and supply the sexual needs is way outdated. It has no bearing
>> > on
>> > the current reality for
>> > most families or relationships.
>> >
>> > ToeKnee, however much he has experienced with women (those insecure
>> > ones
>> > who will have
>> > him and his BS) , is woefully underprepared for the reality of the
>> > present. The majority of the
>> > women with whom I have contact would discard ToeKnee in a flash.
>> > Several
>> > would consider
>> > him---he professes to be a good provider---but would discard him based
>>on
>> > his posting here
>> > about his prowess and the role of women in his life. Too mcuh about his
>> > sexual
>> > neediness.They are not looking for blowhards or bragardts. Even the
>>women
>> > who want a care-
>> > taker want someone with sanity...Both men and women are interested in
>> > people who are
>> > interesting. Foilks like ToeKnee, a one-trick-pony, are not
>> > interesting.
>> > They are just
>> > exhaustingling dull. He may be good in bed, and lots of folks are, but
>>if
>> > there is nothing
>> > interesting to talk about before and after, it's just complicated
>> > masturbation. ToeKnee may be
>> > really good at this, but most Women are little more
>> > discriminating.....perhaps his own
>> > masturbatory fantasies are enough for him. I'm sure that that would be
>>the
>> > case for any woman
>> > faced with a choice betweeen ToeKnee and her own imagination....
>> >
>> > Debi R-S.From:
>> >
>> >
>> > "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> > To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> > Date sent: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 15:00:30 -0700
>> > Copies to: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable
>> > them...
>> >
>> > [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
>> >
>> > Thoughtful and cordial post, J.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > By "confidence with woman," I mean to describe a man who knows what
>> > makes them tick. Who understands that while they of course wish and
>> > deserve to be treated as equals with men, this does not mean denying
>> > their obvious and glorious femininity. They in most cases like to be
>> > treated as human beings; no double entendre's and creepy stares, but
>> > opened doors, genuine interest and attention, thorough grooming and a
>> > non-threatening but still sexually charged interaction.
>> >
>> > Men and woman are BOTH attracted to confidence. And as for a woman, I
>> > see no reason why childrearing and housekeeping would preclude
>> > confidence. Take care of a couple toddlers sometime! It will require
>> > confidence, determination and guts.
>> >
>> > Ands that's AFTER a valium.
>> >
>> > Just kidding J.
>> >
>> > Guess what I'm getting at is that we are both hard wired through many
>> > millennia to be attracted to one another. Why allow all this
>> > politically correct, feminist bullshit to get in the way of a good
>> > time?
>> >
>> > J, you woman have always been aloof and in control. Always capable
>> > with the proper approach, of have us salivating and begging for a
>> > scrap. We men are all dogs anyway J, but when you get to know us you
>> > will enjoy teaching us tricks.
>> >
>> > Woof!
>> >
>> > -Tony
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 7:41 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable them...
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> No offense meant, but "attractiveness" in a male OR female involves
>> >> more than just the outside appearances. The INSIDE appearances also
>> >> need to be good looking. What I mean by that is that the person's
>> >> attitude, demeanor, helpfulness to the family and community, etc.
>> >> has to all be considered when you look at a person and say they are
>> >> attractive or not. Anyone can put on enough outside garb to make
>> >> their bodies look good (to each their own on that one.) but if the
>> >> insides (the mental and emotional sides) are messed up, no amount of
>> >> make-up or fashionable (?) clothing or shoes as well as well-quaffed
>> >> hair will make a person "attractive". IMHO, of course.
>> >>
>> >> I am NOT sure what you mean by "confidence with women" - is that
>> >> like Doug F or Doug W or Tony S who think the only thing a women is
>> >> good for is popping out babies, being sub-servant and homebodies -
>> >> of that, they are confident?
>> >>
>> >> Or do you mean that they (the men) have confidence in themselves
>> >> enough to talk and treat a women like an equal, yet still retain
>> >> their (the men's) manliness (whatever the hell that means)?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> J :]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> >>>To: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>> >>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable
>> >>>them... Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 07:37:54 -0700
>> >>>
>> >>>Wayner, did it ever cross your mind that perhaps Dale was simply
>> >>>acknowledging reality with his use of the moniker "studly?" As an
>> >>>experienced and confident male, I am amused by your pathetic
>> >>>conclusion that all men who possess the confidence with woman that
>> >>>you evidently lack, are automatically in the closet. Woman are
>> >>>attracted to confident, masculine men, Wayner. Do you fall, well,
>> >>>short?
>> >>>
>> >>>Don't make reflexive assumptions about your betters pal.
>> >>>
>> >>>Now go do the dishes.
>> >>>
>> >>>-TONY
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: Art Deco
>> >>> To: Vision 2020
>> >>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:15 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable
>> >>> them...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Gary,
>> >>>
>> >>> A few short points, but don't take the first one too seriously or
>> >>> at
>> >>> all
>> >>>personally:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. "... sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar." Hmmm. I
>> >>> wonder
>> >>> what
>> >>>Freud or Rorschach would say about the choice of this particular
>> >>>aphorism in the context of this discussion.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2. For your consideration, excepted from
>> >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard:
>> >>>
>> >>> Ted Arthur Haggard (born June 27, 1956) is a former American
>> >>> evangelical
>> >>>preacher. Known as Pastor Ted to the congregations he has served, he
>> >>>is the founder and former pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado
>> >>>Springs, Colorado; a founder of the Association of Life-Giving
>> >>>Churches; and was leader of the National Association of Evangelicals
>> >>>from 2003[1] until November 2006.
>> >>>
>> >>> In November 2006, he resigned or was removed from all of his
>> >>> leadership
>> >>>positions after allegations of homosexual sex and drug abuse were
>> >>>made by Mike Jones, a former male prostitute. Initially Haggard
>> >>>denied even knowing Mike Jones, but as a media investigation
>> >>>proceeded he acknowledged that some allegations, such as his
>> >>>purchase of methamphetamine, were true. He later added "sexual
>> >>>immorality" to his list of confessions.[2]
>> >>>
>> >>> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> Haggard has condemned "homosexual activity.â? In the documentary
>> >>> Jesus
>> >>>Camp, one scene shows a sermon where he preaches, "we don't have to
>> >>>debate about what we should think about homosexual activity. Itâ?Ts
>> >>>written in the Bible."[18] Although Haggard opposes same-sex
>> >>>marriage, he has suggested that there should be civil unions for
>> >>>homosexual couples.[19]
>> >>>
>> >>> Under Haggard's leadership, the NAE released "For the Health of
>> >>> the
>> >>>Nation: An Evangelical Call to Civic Responsibility" in the fall of
>> >>>2004,[20] "a document urging engagement in traditional culture war
>> >>>issues such as abortion and gay marriage but also poverty,
>> >>>education, taxes, welfare and immigration."[20] The NAE has stated
>> >>>that "homosexual activity, like adulterous relationships, is clearly
>> >>>conÂdemned in the Scriptures."[21]
>> >>>
>> >>> Haggard is only one of many religious and political figures,
>> >>> mostly
>> >>>Republican (for example, Spokane's last mayor), who condemned
>> >>>homosexuality
>> >>>but were discovered to be active, if not ravenous practitioners of
>> >>>such. Clear cases of reaction formation.
>> >>>
>> >>> To the point: Did not Haggard exhibit the signs of reaction
>> >>> formation
>> >>>discussed in my post that you so kindly commented upon? Did not
>> >>>Haggard's own admissions about his feelings and behaviors reveal the
>> >>>truth? How are the signs shown by Tony, Farris, Cultmaster Douglas
>> >>>Wilson, etc, all who rabidly proclaim the same homophobia any
>> >>>different from the pre-exposure signs which Haggard and his fellow
>> >>>hypocrites exhibited?
>> >>>
>> >>> When someone salivates, obsesses, and loudly harangues over some
>> >>> other
>> >>>adults' private sexual behavior with other adults, it argues that
>> >>>the salivator is having some real problems themselves. Further, one
>> >>>would expect a libertarian to roundly condemn such egregious,
>> >>>pathological forays into matters of personal choice and freedom.
>> >>>
>> >>> 3. If you or anybody want to debate the morality of
>> >>> homosexuality,
>> >>>then I, and probably a lot others on this list-serve, are completely
>> >>>willing to do so on the basis of observation and reason, but not on
>> >>>the basis of unverifiable religious superstition.
>> >>>
>> >>> 4. You write:
>> >>>
>> >>> "Does the fact that you are so vehemently opposed to any type of
>> >>>religious doctrine mean that you harbor messianic tendencies?"
>> >>>
>> >>> False assumption. I am vehemently opposed to superstition of all
>> >>> kinds
>> >>>including religious superstition and belief in the supernatural as a
>> >>>basis upon which to make moral, social, or political decisions.
>> >>>However, many religious ethical dicta (though not in such unyielding
>> >>>firmness and specificity) can be supported by
>> >>>non-superstitious/non-supernatural observations and reasons in many
>> >>>cases.
>> >>>
>> >>> For your libertarian enjoyment, perhaps you might read The
>> >>> Leviathan
>> >>>http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/hobbes/leviathan-conten
>> >>>ts.html, by Thomas Hobbes who was basically a nonbeliever (and the
>> >>>founder of modern libertarianism), as an example of a purely secular
>> >>>defense/explanation of many western moral beliefs. As a further
>> >>>example, there is a lot of empirical validity to Buddha's
>> >>>description of daily human life -- a description which led him to
>> >>>propose an ethic similar to the Greek Stoics (another group
>> >>>containing nonbelievers/anti-superstitionists). [There is a
>> >>>continuing debate over whether Buddha himself was a believer in the
>> >>>modern sense of the term.]
>> >>>
>> >>> Since your premise was false, there is no need to discuss your
>> >>>conclusion. Nice try though.
>> >>>
>> >>> 5. Speaking of reaction formation: What would think of a
>> >>>hypothetical man's sexual identity and masculinity issues, a man who
>> >>>would not only rabidly espouse homophobia, but would resort to an
>> >>>utterly ridiculous comb-over, and who would make himself the
>> >>>laughing-stock of some of his hypothetical GPS caching group by
>> >>>hypothetically naming himself "Studly" in the group? Does this not
>> >>>remind you of the braggarts about their sexual exploits and
>> >>>fertility whose wives and girlfriends frequently leave them for poor
>> >>>or non-performance, or compensate for their lack of sexual prowess
>> >>>by having affairs with others more skilled or take up needlepoint?
>> >>>Or which braggarts secretly share Haggard's desires more strongly
>> >>>than their heterosexual desires?
>> >>>
>> >>> Your humble servant,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>> >>> deco at moscow.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: g. crabtree
>> >>> To: Art Deco ; Vision 2020
>> >>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:42 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable
>> >>> them...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Wayne,
>> >>> Psycho babble aside, sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar. you
>> >>> are so
>> >>>vehemently opposed to any type of religious doctrine mean that you
>> >>>harbor messianic tendencies? It would explain quite a lot about how
>> >>>you deal with anyone who might dare to disagree with your exalted
>> >>>point of view and multi color pronouncements.
>> >>>
>> >>> g
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: Art Deco
>> >>> To: Vision 2020
>> >>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:29 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable
>> >>> them...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Tony,
>> >>>
>> >>> reaction formation (plural reaction formations): In
>> >>> psychoanalysis,
>> >>>a defense mechanism in which somebody condemns something that has a
>> >>>strong, driving unconscious appeal.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> reaction formation is a defense mechanism in which
>> >>> anxiety-producing
>> >>>or unacceptable emotions are replaced by their direct opposites.
>> >>>This mechanism is often characteristic of obsessional neuroses. When
>> >>>this mechanism is overused, especially during the formation of the
>> >>>ego, it can become a permanent character trait. This is often in
>> >>>those with obsessional character and obsessive personality
>> >>>disorders. This does not imply that its periodic usage is always
>> >>>obsessional, but that it can lead to obsessional behavior. Example:
>> >>> A man who is overly aroused by pornographic material who utilizes
>> >>>reaction formation may take on an attitude of criticism toward the
>> >>>topic.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> REACTION-FORMATION : The blocking of desire by its opposite.
>> >>>"Reaction-formation" is the term Freud uses to describe the
>> >>>mechanism whereby the ego reacts to the impulses of the id by
>> >>>creating an antithetical formation that blocks repressed cathexes.
>> >>>For example, someone who feels homosexual desire might repress that
>> >>>desire by turning it into hatred for all homosexuals.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Perhaps you and Farris might confront and thus deal directly
>> >>> with
>> >>> your
>> >>>personal demons discretely in private, rather than so obviously
>> >>>exhibiting them in public. I am sure that everyone would benefit,
>> >>>especially you and Farris: both your stultifying repressions and
>> >>>secret frustrations could be at least partially deadened. And after
>> >>>you have relived your tensions, perhaps you might be able to pass on
>> >>>your personal experiences with the cure and your newly found
>> >>>contacts to Cultmaster Douglas Wilson and his apparent secret
>> >>>admirer Douglas Jones, both who appear to need such therapy quite
>> >>>badly.
>> >>>
>> >>> Your internally inconsistent post also reveals the grave doubts
>> >>> you
>> >>>have about your masculinity and sexual identity when you have to
>> >>>resort to posting outright lies. For example:
>> >>>
>> >>> "Saundra's determination to avoid reality by choosing to doubt
>> >>> what
>> >>>has by now become commonplace, rather than investigate, is
>> >>>disappointing if not surprising."
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Included in this thread is a post by Saundra giving the URL to
>> >>> the
>> >>>story from the Chicago Tribune which casts a very different light on
>> >>>the story posted originally by the salivating, non-critical Farris.
>> >>>Saundra investigated; you did not. It is one thing for you and the
>> >>>gullible, narrow-witted Farris to delude yourselves thinking you are
>> >>>agent provocateurs, but, in reality, quite another to so clearly
>> >>>exhibit yourselves as sexually frustrated liars.
>> >>>
>> >>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>> >>> deco at moscow.com
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> >>> To: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>> >>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:21 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The maladjusted and those who enable
>> >>> them...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Wow Doug, you really flushed out the extremist, sodomite
>> >>> > activists
>> >>>with your
>> >>> > entirely reasonable and justified outrage over the public
>> >>> > school's
>> >>>abhorrent
>> >>> > support for inappropriate, dirty and unhealthy behaviors.
>> >>> Saundra's
>> >>> > determination to avoid reality by choosing to doubt what has
>> >>> > by now
>> >>>become
>> >>> > commonplace, rather than investigate, is disappointing if not
>> >>>surprising.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > And how about Wayne's complete refusal to address your
>> >>> > message in
>> >>>favor of a
>> >>> > masturbatory fit of name calling? You know you have hit upon
>> >>> > the
>> >>>truth in a
>> >>> > persuasive manner when these folks, who seem determined to
>> >>> > defend
>> >>>the
>> >>> > indefensible, respond in a childlike snit.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Keep up the good work partner.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Best, -Tony
>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> > From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>> >>> > To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:25 AM
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And you all say that we have a
>> >>> > political
>> >>>agenda?!
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Replaying:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> This kind of right wing/religious bullshit is what happens
>> >>> >> when
>> >>>misguided,
>> >>> >> stupid, and/or tyrannical people depend on superstition for
>> >>> >> their
>> >>>moral
>> >>> >> beliefs rather than observation and reasoning.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> W.
>> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> >> From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>> >>> >> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>;
>> >>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:31 PM
>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And you all say that we have a
>> >>> >> political agenda?!
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> Note Waltz's final comment, "All our kids are great kids,
>> >>> >>> whether
>> >>>they
>> >>> >>> are
>> >>> >>> gay or straight," is, I believe, the point of these
>> >>> >>> classes. Too
>> >>>bad she
>> >>> >>> doesn't get it.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Strange the Trib article doesn't even mention the
>> >>> >>> nondisclosure
>> >>>contract
>> >>> >>> bit, which, if true, would be a significant issue for the
>> >>> >>> press.
>> >>>I
>> >>> >>> seriously doubt there is anything to the claim students
>> >>> >>> have to
>> >>>sign a
>> >>> >>> contract promising "not to tell their parents." Public
>> >>> >>> school
>> >>>folks who
>> >>> >>> work with teenagers know they tell everything--to everyone,
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> except
>> >>>maybe
>> >>> >>> their parents, until they turn 40 and around the dinner
>> >>> >>> table
>> >>> tell
>> >>>us all
>> >>> >>> that stuff we really don't want to know now.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Mrs. Walz's daughter was hurt when her beliefs were
>> >>> >>> challenged.
>> >>>But
>> >>> >>> that's
>> >>> >>> how kids grow, and adults, too. To be called on to examine
>> >>> >>> ones
>> >>>beliefs
>> >>> >>> is
>> >>> >>> not to say they are necessarily wrong; but as one who grew
>> >>> >>> up
>> >>>believing
>> >>> >>> pretty much what Mrs Walz would have her daughter believe,
>> >>> >>> I wish
>> >>>someone
>> >>> >>> had challenged my attitudes when I was 17 or so.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Thanks for the lin .
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Sue Hovey
>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> > gt;> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at roadrunner.com>
>> >>> >>> To: "'Sue Hovey'" <suehovey at moscow.com>;
>> >>> >>> <vision2020 at moscow.com> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007
>> >>> >>> 11:01 AM Subject: RE: [Vision2020] And you all say that we
>> >>> >>> have a
>> >>> political
>> >>> >>> agenda?!
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>> Hi Sue,
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> You might want to check out this link to a story that was
>> >>> >>>> in the
>> >>>Chicago
>> >>> >>>> Trib:
>> >>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/2arte6
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Not surprisingly, the story is actually quite a bit
>> >>> >>>> different
>> >>>than the
>> >>> >>>> drivel Doug Farris wants us to believe. Seems to me the
>> >>>religious
>> >>> >>>> reactionaries need to get their stories straight -- it's
>> >>> >>>> hard to
>> >>>make
>> >>> >>>> the
>> >>> >>>> argument about the whole nonsense of some confidentiality
>> >>>contract when
>> >>> >>>> everyone knows about the event in advance and parents can
>> >>> >>>> opt to
>> >>>not
>> >>> >>>> have
>> >>> >>>> their children participate. Notice, too, the names & how
>> >>> >>>> Ellen
>> >>>Waltz,
>> >>> >>>> whose name appears in the Trib, seems to be changing her
>> >>> >>>> story
>> >>>:-P
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> Saundra Lund
>> >>> >>>> Moscow, ID
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
>> >>> >>>> good
>> >>>people to
>> >>> >>>> do
>> >>> >>>> nothing.
>> >>> >>>> - Edmund Burke
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006
>> >>>through life
>> >>> >>>> plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward,
>> >>> >>>> excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
>> >>> >>>> without the express written
>> >>>permission of
>> >>> >>>> the author.*****
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>--------
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> =======================================================
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>> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>> http://www.fsr.net
>> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>> >>>----------
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>> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>=======================================================
>> >>
>> >> _________________________________________________________________
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