[Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!

[Ted Moffett]

Donovan et. al.

I did not say that "atheism is the the most logical..."  I did not say I was
an atheist.  We were discussing agnosticism.

Please do not misrepresent what I wrote or what I think and believe, OK?

Ted Moffett


On 6/6/07, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Ted,
>
> Thanks for the comments. However, I do have to disagree atheism is the
> most logical because it gains nothing. Even if it were true that there was
> no God, would we really want to believe such a thing as a society as whole?
>
> Second, I disagree that religion is the cause of anything negative. I do
> believe however, that men pervert religion and spirituality as they do
> everything else they come into contact with. If religion DID not get abused
> it would be the only thing used by men that has not. Societies that have no
> God are just as evil and destructive as those with a God. Which tells us it
> is man's doing, not God's.
>
> There is a button that can be pushed to cause peace, it is connected to a
> nuclear bomb. A nuclear war would cause peace, but it isn't a price I would
> be willing to pay. Sometimes peace is not always the best answer to our
> problems and war is not always the wrong answer.
>
> One a final note, I was thinking about what you said about not knowing
> something absolutely and following it is blindly following. You must then
> say that you are not an atheist because you cannot know absolutely that
> there is not a God. You can absolutely know that there is a God if there is
> one, because he can make it so. But if there isn't a God, you are limited to
> your human brain which knows little outside this tiny little planet which
> doesn't even make up 1% of the solar system.
>
> Best,
>
> Donovan
>
> *Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> Donovan et. al.
>
> I am going back to your original comment that prompted my response.
>
> I understand that many people believe there is good evidence for whatever
> form of God they believe in.  If I had a thought control machine that could
> make everyone in the world think like I do, I would not push that button.
> How boring the world would be if everyone thought like I do.  If I had a
> peace button on the machine, however, I might push that one, while allowing
> everyone to still follow whatever faith or belief system they choose,
> peacefully of course.
>
> You appear to insist in your comment below that being agnostic is
> "illogical," that belief in "God" is the most logical approach.  I was
> arguing for the agnostic position, in an attempt to make it appear logical,
> as a possibility that might be closer to the truth than theism.
>
> Religious absolutism and dogmatism are negative forces in the world.  This
> applies also to the secular dogmatics, like Pol Pot or Stalin, who made
> Communism into a kind of secular religion, justifying their horrors by
> secular ideological absolutism.  Religious and ideological absolutism,
> besides being very questionable, given the uncertainty of human knowledge
> and belief, is often used to justify the worst of human behavior.
>
> Of course, many of the most faithful argue that without surrendering to an
> absolutist ideological belief system, doubt creates a state of mind that
> results in anti-social behavior, in a break down of values, disintegration
> of meaning, etc.  There may be some truth to this claim.  But there is a
> middle ground between nihilism and absolutism that I think can minimize the
> extremism of behavior associate with absolutist belief systems, while still
> allowing meaning and strong positive values to flourish.  Finding the
> balance between rational doubt and unquestioning absolutism is perhaps not
> such an easy task.
>
> Ted Moffett
>
> On 5/31/07, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> > It is illogical to be agnostic. If you die, which you will, and there is
> > in fact a God, you best have worshiped him. On the other, if there is no
> > God, it won't count against you.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Donovan
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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