[Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief or not!

heirdoug at netscape.net heirdoug at netscape.net
Thu Jun 7 10:03:26 PDT 2007 

Jackie :p

Aren't your forgetting that Nick was just the department head and not 
Doug Wilson's advisor?

But of course that is different!

D ;{|


-----Original Message-----
From: J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: heirdoug at netscape.net; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 6:53 pm
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief or not!


Are you forgetting that Dougie-boy was a student/mentee of Nick's? That 
he graduated under the tutalage of Nick?! 
 
But of course that is different, now isn't it?! 
 
J :] 
 
 
 
>From: heirdoug at netscape.net 
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com, nickgier at adelphia.net 
>Subject: [Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief or not! 
>Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:26:28 -0400 
> 
>Dear Lounge Lizard, 
> 
>You are correct that most all of what Nick Gier writes is of no impact 
>on the community as a whole. As a matter of fact very few people ever 
>read his twaddle. If it weren't for Blind 2020 "Teach" wouldn't have 
>any thing to do. But it is not what he writes but what he taught over 
>the past 35 years that has grave consequences! 
> 
>What I did find out by reading the latest installment (yes I forced my 
>self to actually look at the words that he put together) is that he 
>left out some pretty substantial numbers of deaths from the recent 
>world history. 
> 
>Maybe with the following statistics Nick can expand the pages of his 
>new work to over 65 pages: 
> 
>The number of allied soldiers killed in the D-Day invasion (53,714) is 
>the same number as were killed in the world in the past 9 hours by 
>abortion. 
> 
>In the first year of the Iraq war we lost 589 brave men and women. 
That 
>is the same number as were destroyed in the last 6 min. 
> 
>In the past 34 years, about the time that Nick Gier started his 
>venerated career as a "Professional Philosopher", 44,388,860 living 
>innocent babies had their lives snuffed out by abortion. Maybe some of 
>the mothers who were deceived into believing they were doing the right 
>thing were former students of Nick's, cheered on by his continual 
>droning that what they were carrying was not a real person, YET! Just 
>one fine example of his past teaching. I'm sure that can still find it 
>at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier! 
> 
>Way to go teach. Please be our guest to continue the madness! 
> 
>Doug Farris (So there is no confusion as to who wrote this.) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
- 
>------- 
> 
>Why is it relevant with regard to HOW MANY individuals were killed by 
>such-and-such people of a certain faith. Isn't it the simple act of 
>killing and the reason behind the killing that is of importance? 
>Keeping scorecards of "number killed" by "faith/belief structure" 
seems 
>a bit sophomoric if the ultimate issue is to address the REASON behind 
>the killing. Is one faith more evil or despicable because it killed 
>2,000 more than another for the exact same reason? 
> 
>Furthermore, what does Gier's post really have to do with the stated 
>objective of Vision 2020: "Moscow Vision 2020 is an informal, 
>multi-partisan group of Moscow residents formed in 1993 to encourage 
>more public information and debate about the future of Moscow and 
Latah 
>County." I fail to comprehend where Gier's post, as well as many other 
>posted here, has any connection with Moscow or Latah County. It 
appears 
>that several posters use the board as a soapbox to spout off their own 
>partisan or religious beliefs, or, in this case, to develop a thesis, 
>without connecting how their post relates to Moscow's or Latah 
County's 
>future. 
> 
>nickgier at adelphia.net wrote: Good Morning: 
> 
>I would like to thank Gary Crabtree for the inspiration for this 
week's 
>KRFP radio commentary. 
> 
>Nick Gier 
> 
>CHRIST IS OUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF: 
>RELATIVE VIOLENCE IN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY 
> 
>I'm writing a book on the origins of religious violence and my thesis 
>is that there has been far more religiously motivated violence in the 
>Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity, and 
Islam—than the >Asian 
>religions. Draft chapters can be viewed at 
>www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/orv.htm. 
> 
>A person on our local list-serve Vision2020 had this to say about 
>relative violence in Islam and Christianity: 
> 
>"Up to the eleventh century Islam had a sizable lead. From 1095 to 
1291 
>the Church picked up the pace and nosed ahead. It was neck and neck 
>till 1834 and the end of the Spanish Inquisition. After that Allah's 
>chosen made it no contest." 
> 
>There are more than a few problems with this summary history. 
> 
>Islam could not possibly have had any sort of lead before the 11th 
>Century because Christianity had a very good head start. Under 
>Theodosius I, being a pagan was a capital crime, and even Christians 
>were arrested if they practiced even the most minor of pagan 
practices. 
> 
>On December 25, 390, Theodosius ordered the slaughter of 7,000 pagans 
>in Thessalonica. The British historian Hugh Trevor Roper called 
>Theodosius "the first Spanish Inquisitor," and "the Christian monarch 
>who introduced the world to religious totalitarianism." 
> 
>Bishop Ambrose, who baptized St. Augustine, made Theodosius do penance 
>for the atrocities at Thessalonica, but he still proclaimed that 
>"Christ was now at the head of the [Roman] legions." 
> 
>This reminds me of the sign outside a fundamentalist church in L.A., 
>right after the invasion of Iraq: "Christ is our Commander-in-Chief." 
>I'm assuming that our born-again president would have to agree with 
>this demotion. 
> 
>Under Muslim rule Jews and Christians were generally asked to offer a 
>special tax, not their heads. The slaughter of 4,000 Jews in Muslim 
>Granada in 1066 was the exception rather than the rule, and Jews 
>generally had much better lives in Muslim Spain than anywhere else in 
>Christian Europe. 
> 
>In 1099, men, women, and children were slaughtered indiscriminately 
>when Christian forces captured Jerusalem. An eyewitness reported that 
>the Crusaders "rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. 
>Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place 
>should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had 
>suffered so long from their blasphemies." 
> 
>When Saladin retook the city in 1187, Christians were only required to 
>pay a ransom and then free to return home. Some of Saladin's officers 
>paid for those who could not afford it, and about 7,000 others were 
>sold into slavery. 
> 
>In Muslim India Buddhist and Hindus were, incredibly enough, declared 
>"People of the Book," and the tax on non-Muslims was only sporadically 
>enforced and even more infrequently collected. 
> 
>Most of the ancestors of Muslims in Pakistan, Bangladesh (especially 
>here), India, Indonesia, and Malaysia freely converted to Islam. Areas 
>in India where forced conversions were attempted are now the places 
>where one finds the fewest Muslims per capita. 
> 
>Some Mughal emperors ordered the destruction of Hindu and Buddhist 
>temples, but local resistance and intimidated Mughal functionaries 
>meant that relatively few temples were liquidated. Early Christian 
>emperors were much more successful in destroying pagan temples, 
>including the one in Alexandria that housed the finest library in the 
>ancient world. 
> 
>Curiously, the Vision2020 post above ended Christian atrocities in 
>1834, but during the Taiping Rebellion, Chinese Christian armies were 
>responsible for killing 10-20 million people between 1852-1864. I 
would 
>hazard a guess that more Daoist, Buddhist, and Confucian temples were 
>destroyed by the Taipings in 12 years than 600 years of Muslim rule in 
>India. 
> 
>Some have claimed that the Taipings were not really Christians, but 
>that is simply not the case. They took great pains to eliminate 
Chinese 
>religious influences; they enforced the 10 Commandments at the point 
of 
>a sword; and they followed the Bible very carefully, including the 
>prophecies in the Book of Revelation. 
> 
>Short of Osama bin Laden getting several nukes and using them, 
>militant Muslims have a long way to go to match the historical 
>Christian kill rate. 
> 
>Nick Gier taught religion and philosophy at the University of Idaho 
for 
>31 years. See his columns as the Palouse Pundit at www.NickGier.com. 
> 
> 
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