[Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq

Sat Jun 2 13:13:58 PDT 2007

I recently heard of one SS number being used by 43 people...just how is 
this goverment plan working??

> 
One answer to Gary's question below is the federal
gove> rnment's I-9 form, which all new hires are required to
fi> ll out.  It cannot be completed without examination by
th> e employer of a driver's license, state-issued ID card,
o> r other "official" photo to establish identity, and a
vis> a or permanent alien registration card and Social
Securit> y card to establish right to work.But these documents
can>  be forged and look entirely authentic.  An employer who
> sees documents like those above that are, upon
examinatio> n, authentic-looking, must consider him for employment. 
> He cannot say, "Gee, these look great, but my gut tells
m> e, Mr. Valdez, that they're probably fake.  I know that
h> appens a lot with you people."  If they look good, they
w> ork; it's as illegal to discriminate as it is to
knowingl> y hire an undocumented worker.  Things aren't always as
t> hey seem, either way.keely> From: jampot at adelphia.net>
To> : mattd2107 at hotmail.com; godshatter at yahoo.com;
vision2020> @moscow.com> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 07:02:42 -0700>
Subjec> t: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in
I> raq> > On the surface Paul's suggestion seems reasonable
> but there are at least two > small problems with that
app> roach. The first is that, once again, it takes a >
nation> al problem and forces the small business man to
implement>  the > solution. (just like tax collection) How is the
em> ployer to make a > definitive call on the legality of
any>  given potential new hire? There were > provisions in
the>  Reagan Amnesty to make employers check legal status and
> > nothing came of it due to the difficulty in making
that>  determination. How > are you checking the legal status
o> f your employees currently, Matt?> > Which leads me
direc> tly to the second objection: the national I.D. card. >
Ma> tt, how would you or Paul prove to a new employer that
yo> u were legal > residents of the USA? Your drivers
license> ? Your birth certificate? As I'm > sure that you are
well>  aware these can be easily faked. To combat this a >
nati> onal identification card would pretty much have to be
imp> lemented and my > objections of that are several. First,
> how long before those are faked and > we're right back
at>  the starting gate. Two, the expense of getting one into
> > the hands of every single man, woman, and child in
Amer> ica would be enormous > if you consider that some type
of>  background check would have to be done for > each
indivi> dual. You can't do a less comprehensive check on the
dump> y, > middle aged, white guy (me for instance) then you
wo> uld on Jose, the twenty > something, brown skinned man
wi> th no permanent address. That would be > discriminatory.
> Three, the idea of produce on demand documents leaves me
> a > bit cold for what should be obvious reasons.> >
Rathe> r than going the route that places the greatest burden
on>  the citizens > of our country, the government should do
> what is required to control the > boarders, be it by the
> construction of "The Wall," increased boarder guards, >
(> who do not have their hands tied with stupid restraints)
> Predator drones > and other enhanced security measures.
O> nce the influx of illegal's is > controlled we can turn
o> ur attention to coping with the ones who are here >
alrea> dy.> > g> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt
Deck> er" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>> To: <godshatter at yahoo.com>;
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007
8:35>  PM> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if
they>  fight in Iraq> > > > Paul,> >> > Great points.> >> >
Mat> t> >> >> >>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>>
>> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
"> Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq> >>Date: Fri, 01
> Jun 2007 19:33:09 -0700> >>> >>..not responding to your
c> omments to Nick necessarily, just illegal> >>immigration
> in general...> >>> >>It takes two to tango. They
wouldn't>  be coming over here if there weren't> >>places they
coul> d work under the table. Slap those companies with harsh>
> >>fines when they are caught and the influx would at
leas> t slow down.> >>> >>I would suggest that more of our
ance> stors didn't come into the country> >>illegally because
i> t is harder to swim the Atlantic Ocean than it is to>
>>s> wim the Rio Grande.> >>> >>Paul> >>> >>Matt Decker
wrote:> > >>>Nick,> >>>> >>>"Or is the only good illegal simply
a>  dead illegal?"> >>>> >>>Wow ya have us evil
coservatives>  paiged. Death to all "brownies".> >>>> >>>Or maybe just
> maybe, asking for people to abide by the rules like most
> of> >>>our ancestors, following the rules to gain entry
i> nto out great country,> >>>is what we thrive for. To
esta> blish a more thorough approach to "who"> >>>comes in and
> what good and bad they bring, is the more logical
reasoni> ng> >>>behind our racist minds. Maybe just maybe, trying
> to stop the easy access> >>>to drug traffic, high crime,
> terrorists that can easily come through "if">
>>>desired.> > >>>> >>>But hey if your rocks get off by promoting all
> anti-conservative speals,> >>>toot your own horn at
will.> > >>>> >>>Matt> >>>> >>>> >>>>From:
<nickgier at adelphia.ne> t>> >>>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com> >>>>Subject:
[Vision20> 20] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq> >>>>Date:
F> ri, 1 Jun 2007 14:03:49 -0700> >>>>> >>>>Greetings:>
>>>>> > >>>>This article was posted on NewWest. Attached is a
c> artoon on the subject> >>>>"Weren't the Pilgrims (and
man> y others) illegal immigrants?"> >>>>> >>>>Nick Gier>
>>>>> > >>>>Guest Commentary> >>>>Is the Only Good Illegal a
De> ad Illegal?> >>>>By Contributing Writer, 5-30-07> >>>>>
>> >>>I read Quang PhamÃ¢?Ts article, Ã¢?oFrom Illegal to
Im> mortal Ã¢?" Marine> >>>>Sgt. Rafael PeraltaÃ¢?ï¿½
regardi> ng a program on the History Channel. To> >>>>encapsulate
> his story mercilessly, Sgt. Rafael Peralta was a
Mexican>>  >>>>native who came to this country illegally and
became>  a Marine. He made a> >>>>heroic and ultimate sacrifice
i> n Falloujah, and his last act saved the> >>>>lives of
man> y other Marines.> >>>>> >>>>For the record, though I was
> against the Iraq War from the beginning, I> >>>>honor
Sgt> . Peralta and all those whoÃ¢?Tve sacrificed in service
t> o our> >>>>country. But what interests me about this
stor> y is not the Iraq> >>>>connection or what Peralta did
the> re per se, but rather the reaction to> >>>>the tale by
co> nservatives in general, and especially those who vilify>
> >>>>illegal immigrants.> >>>>> >>>>That Peralta entered
t> his country illegally is not in dispute. As noted>
>>>>by>  Clemenseando and others, Ã¢?oSgt. Peralta immigrated
ill> egally to the> >>>>United States as a teenagerÃ¢?Â¦. In
h> igh school, he was approached by a> >>>>Marine recruiter
> who told him to get in touch once he cleared up his>
>>>>> legal status.Ã¢?ï¿½> >>>>> >>>>Note that Peralta came to
> the U.S. alone Ã¢?" without his parents.> >>>>>
>>>>Assum> ing that illegal immigration foes would have only
grudgin> g> >>>>admiration for a war hero who entered this
country>  illegally, I looked> >>>>around the web for disparaging
> or equivocal comments.> >>>>> >>>>I found none. The
anti-> illegal crowd and other conservatives have >
>>>>nothing>>  >>>>but praise for Peralta. WhatÃ¢?Ts more, theyÃ¢?Tve
s> anitized the story of> >>>>his immigration status.>
>>>>R> aoul Lowery Contreras, author of The Illegal Alien: A
Dag> ger into the> >>>>Heart of America? says Ã¢?oPeralta
grad> uated from Morse High School, > >>>>still> >>>>a Mexican
> citizen and worked to get his Permanent Resident Card,
th> e> >>>>famous Ã¢?~Green CardÃ¢?T so he could join the
Mar> ines.Ã¢?ï¿½> >>>>> >>>>Oliver North writes that Peralta
w> as Ã¢?oa Mexican immigrant who enlisted> >>>>in the
Marin> e Corps the day he received his green card.Ã¢?ï¿½> >>>>>
> >>>>Deborah at My Little Corner of the World, a blog
whos> e motto is> >>>>Ã¢?oCalling an illegal alien an
Ã¢?~undoc> umented immigrantÃ¢?T is like> >>>>calling a drug dealer
> an Ã¢?~unlicensed pharmacist,Ã¢?T Ã¢?ï¿½ quotes a >
>>>>B> oston> >>>>Globe story that notes, Ã¢?oRafael Peralta
was>  25 years old, a Mexican> >>>>immigrant from San Diego
wh> o had enlisted in the Marines as soon as he> >>>>became
a>  legal resident. Ã¢?ï¿½> >>>>> >>>>None of the press or
b> log reports tell precisely how Peralta got his>
>>>>green>  card, but attorneys and former illegals relate that the
> way an> >>>>illegal alien Ã¢?oclears upÃ¢?ï¿½ his or her
> legal status is by paying a> >>>>bunch of money to a
lice> nciado or notario who bribes people to forge> >>>>papers
> and commit perjury, thereby constructing a false history
> that> >>>>allows one to fit into a particular green card
> category.> >>>>> >>>>Writers such as those above glide
bl> issfully past this inconvenient> >>>>truth, saying
Peralt> a Ã¢?oworked to getÃ¢?ï¿½ his green card, or simply>
>>>>> Ã¢?oreceivedÃ¢?ï¿½ it, or somehow Ã¢?obecame a legal
resi> dent.Ã¢?ï¿½> >>>>> >>>>What is this supposed to mean? Do
> some actually believe an undocumented> >>>>person can
per> form some sort of Ã¢?oworkÃ¢?ï¿½ that will eventually
ear> n > >>>>them> >>>>a green card? Do they think a green
car> d will just show up in the mail > >>>>if> >>>>a person
st> ands by the mailbox long enough? Are Jose and Maria,
whoÃ> ¢?Tve> >>>>lived here illegally for 10 years, still
illeg> al only because they> >>>>havenÃ¢?Tt Ã¢?oworkedÃ¢?ï¿½ to
> Ã¢?oclear upÃ¢?ï¿½ their status?> >>>>>
>>>>Concomitantly> , is the sin of having entered the country illegally>
>>>> >magically washed away once an immigrant figures out how
> to jump ahead of> >>>>everyone else to get a green card?
> Is the guilt of illegal entry and the> >>>>dishonesty
req> uired for an illegal to become legal absolved by a>
>>>>d> emonstration of heroism?> >>>>> >>>>Or is the only good
i> llegal simply a dead illegal?> >>>>> >>>>Gila Jones is a
> regular contributor to TheLiberalOC, an Orange County,>
>> >>>California blog.> >>>> >>>> >>>><<
PilgrimsIllegal.doc>  >>> >>>> >>>>
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