[Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Fri Jul 20 09:25:54 PDT 2007
I agree with Matt, however there are plenty of things women can do to serve besides combat.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Matt Decker" mattd2107 at hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:52:24 -0700
To: suehovey at moscow.com, thansen at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
> Sue,
>
> It's nice to see someone besides us military boys talking about this. I
> understand your concerns, which I'm sure do happen time to time. I doubt
> though, that in the case of rape, it happens very often. Of course in
> situations such as those women shouldn't be discharged. One must( I can't
> state enough) realize that every time someone, women or men, leaves their
> unit for whatever that be, drastically hurts the unit.
>
> Having a possibility for a women to be raped and having one if not two
> people withdrawn from that unit only further makes me more confident about
> my opinion.What if one of those women are in a leadership role.Believe me
> I've seen a women lietantant (spelling again) flown home from ship from an
> unwanted pregnancy. War is not about political correctness, but rather
> lives. Women in the infantry will cause more causalities in my sexiest(
> thanks Tom) opinion. So be it though. I've seen first hand what the infantry
> is about.
>
> Ive trained with Force Recon and the Navy seals. I've fast roped out of
> helicopters with 80 pounds of gear. Ive hiked 50 miles up and down 7000 ft
> mountains with 130 total pounds of gear in 6 days. I've seen what women do
> around marines or what spouses and husbands do away from each other for 6
> months or a year. How some choose to whore themselves out.
>
> Sorry if I'm venting but I tired of how people read shit but don't live it.
> I have had 14 buddies that have served oversees in this stupid current war.
> I know as well as Tom knows that the military trains for any outcome. I am
> very aware that our military is more mobile than 20 years ago. However, I am
> quite sure all branches train for when your vehicle breaks down and you have
> to hike out. Just like they teach a desk jockey how to shoot a gun.
>
> Sue, I don't feel that most women can do infantry training. But, I don't
> hold that against them. I am sure that some can. I am just uneasy about all
> the other stuff hidden behind closed doors, which can destroy morale and end
> up killing people.
>
>
>
> Again sorry if I vented it's nothing towards you, just something that I
> needed to get off my chest, as well as everyone should know.
>
> Take care
> matt
>
>
> >From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> >To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, <thansen at moscow.com>,
> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
> >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:56:28 -0700
> >
> >I really don't deny you make a point that needs to be considered. I think
> >people who have experienced certain situations first hand, need to have
> >their opinions thoughtfully considered. But in a discussion of pregnant
> >female military and the causes for that condition, and then using that as a
> >reason to exclude them from combat, one might liken some of it, maybe a
> >lot of it, to putting a curfew on women because rapists prowl at night (see
> >today's Doonsbury, too). And if there are some men who can't handle an
> >infantry payload, no one has suggested this means all should be excluded.
> >During Desert Storm, I resented the fact that we sent women to protect the
> >interests of Saudia Arabia, and those women weren't even allowed to leave
> >the military compound or drive a car into a town. And a number were killed
> >in the bombing of their barracks.
> >
> >Something else we need to consider: Inasmuch as males must register for
> >the draft at age 18, then why should females not also have to register? And
> >when, and if, the draft is reauthorized then all young people would be
> >eligible and expected to serve. But that doesn't touch on your issue, I
> >know.
> >
> >Sue
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
> >To: <thansen at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:45 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
> >
> >
> >>For those of you that feel women should be put into combat situations,
> >>mainly infantry orientated units let me give you my side. And please
> >>withhold from calling me a sexist, if you must call me anything, call me a
> >>realist. These points below are the ONLY points I stand on and nothing
> >>more.
> >>
> >>1. Most women can't handle a infantry payload. Some can and more power to
> >>them, but majority can't. Not saying that I'm basing my opinion on this
> >>principle, but it does serve an ideal. EX. When I was in, we had many
> >>ops/humps that consisted of a 20+ mile hike/hump with a 40+ pound pack on
> >>our backs, not including the weapons and gear, another 30 pounds. Many of
> >>men didn't make it. Dehydration, broken bones, etc. One mission was a one
> >>week operation with vector packs. We did this mission for future potential
> >>Korea conflicts. In other words mountianous area of 7000 ft plus. Our
> >>packs
> >>had 100 pounds not including the 30 ponds of water, ammo, and other such
> >>items. Like I said If a women can do this more power to her.
> >>
> >>This is the weakest points of my arguement
> >>
> >>2. There was a common phrase in the marines, more like a joke, in which I
> >>saw true too many times.When is the only time you see a WM(women Marine)
> >>not
> >>pregnant,,,,,,,,,,,, in boot camp(being that Marines males and females are
> >>seperated during that phase). In a infantry unit 40-45 men will go into
> >>combat. Each time someone falls out of position or has a medical problem,
> >>another has to either fill that spot or most likely create a void. Taking
> >>away from the unit. This can greatly increase the chance that another unit
> >>unit member will get injured or killed.
> >>
> >>Let's say that a unit consists of 45 people 35 of those are male, I will
> >>promise you that 6 of those will be pregnant within six months. With a
> >>bunch
> >>of horny males jerking off too sears catalogs, what else would you
> >>suspect.
> >>This loss ONLY hurts the whole unit, taking away from the time the
> >>military
> >>has put forth in training these fine women. I don't know about all of you,
> >>but if I'm going to combat I would rather have a full force than one that
> >>has been depleted due to a curable cause.
> >>
> >>3. Fratinization (spelling, Yup I know I will never win a spelling bee but
> >>what the hell), has destroyed units. I have seen way too many times women
> >>humping upper ranks to get their goals met, what ever that be. Meaning
> >>that
> >>someone, yet again has to fill a void of a now vacant spot. Whether that
> >>be
> >>the first person through the door or a tow gunner, since now they are a
> >>desk
> >>jockey. Believe it or not people this happens everyday. There is no need
> >>for
> >>it in a combat situation. This only causes animosity throughout the whole
> >>unit, which I might remind you is one of the goals,the unit.
> >>
> >>4. Of course there are other items such as women serving in a infantry
> >>situation, in a middle east area. Or the possible outcome of beheaded
> >>women
> >>displayed all over the news.
> >>
> >>These items are dear to me. Only because Ive seen some of them too often.
> >>I've never been in combat, and commend those that have sacrificed, Women
> >>and
> >>Men. I just don't feel women should ever serve in an infantry unit period.
> >>Not because of the physical part, but what happens to units and how much
> >>it
> >>can do to that unit.
> >>
> >>If and only if these items can be fixed, then will I feel in full
> >>confidence, that women should be in INFANTRY organizations.
> >>
> >>Oh yeah and before anyone asks "why is it that other noncombatant units
> >>due
> >>fine with women, so why can't infantry deal with it" approach. let me just
> >>remind you that infantry units deal mostly with numbers. Don't believe me
> >>check out WW2, korea, Vietnam, First gulf war, and the one now.
> >>
> >>Take care
> >>
> >>Matt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
> >>>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:07:16 -0700
> >>>
> >>>For those of you who do not believe women should be permitted in uniform,
> >>>let alone in combat, I commend to you:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Band of Sisters" by Kirsten Holmstedt
> >>>
> >>>http://www.mil-mall.com/product902.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>It is an excellent read.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Tom Hansen
> >>>
> >>>Moscow, Idaho
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>>=======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>=======================================================
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
> >>
> >>=======================================================
> >>List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>=======================================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.8/904 - Release Date: 7/16/2007
> >>5:42 PM
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list