[Vision2020] women in authority and leadership

Thu Jul 19 20:52:24 PDT 2007

Sue,

It's nice to see someone besides us military boys talking about this. I 
understand your concerns, which I'm sure do happen time to time. I doubt 
though, that in the case of rape, it happens very often. Of course in 
situations such as those women shouldn't be discharged. One must( I can't 
state enough) realize that every time someone, women or men, leaves their 
unit for whatever that be, drastically hurts the unit.

Having a possibility for a women to be raped and having one if not two 
people withdrawn from that unit only further makes me more confident about 
my opinion.What if one of those women are in a leadership role.Believe me 
I've seen a women lietantant (spelling again) flown home from ship from an 
unwanted pregnancy. War is not about political correctness, but rather 
lives. Women in the infantry will cause more causalities in my sexiest( 
thanks Tom) opinion. So be it though. I've seen first hand what the infantry 
is about.

Ive trained with Force Recon and the Navy seals. I've fast roped out of 
helicopters with 80 pounds of gear. Ive hiked 50 miles up and down 7000 ft 
mountains with 130 total pounds of gear in 6 days. I've seen what women do 
around marines or what spouses and husbands do away from each other for 6 
months or a year. How some choose to whore themselves out.

Sorry if I'm venting but I tired of how people read shit but don't live it. 
I have had 14 buddies that have served oversees in this stupid current war. 
I know as well as Tom knows that the military trains for any outcome. I am 
very aware that our military is more mobile than 20 years ago. However, I am 
quite sure all branches train for when your vehicle breaks down and you have 
to hike out. Just like they teach a desk jockey how to shoot a gun.

Sue, I don't feel that most women can do infantry training. But, I don't 
hold that against them. I am sure that some can. I am just uneasy about all 
the other stuff hidden behind closed doors, which can destroy morale and end 
up killing people.

Again sorry if I vented it's nothing towards you, just something that I 
needed to get off my chest, as well as everyone should know.

Take care
matt

>From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, <thansen at moscow.com>,        
><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:56:28 -0700
>
>I really don't deny you make a point that needs to be considered. I think 
>people who have experienced certain situations first hand, need to have 
>their opinions thoughtfully considered.   But in a discussion of pregnant 
>female military and the causes for that condition, and then using that as a 
>reason to exclude them from combat,  one might liken some of it, maybe a 
>lot of it, to putting a curfew on women because rapists prowl at night (see 
>today's Doonsbury, too).   And if there  are some men who can't handle an 
>infantry payload, no one has suggested this means all should be excluded. 
>During Desert Storm,  I resented the fact that we sent women to protect the 
>interests of Saudia Arabia, and those women weren't even allowed to leave 
>the military compound or drive a car into a town.  And a number were killed 
>in the bombing of their barracks.
>
>Something else we need to consider:  Inasmuch as males must register for 
>the draft at age 18, then why should females not also have to register? And 
>when, and if, the draft is reauthorized then all young people would be 
>eligible and expected to serve.   But that doesn't touch on your issue, I 
>know.
>
>Sue
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>To: <thansen at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:45 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>
>
>>For those of you that feel women should be put into combat situations,
>>mainly infantry orientated units let me give you my side. And please
>>withhold from calling me a sexist, if you must call me anything, call me a
>>realist. These points below are the ONLY points I stand on and nothing 
>>more.
>>
>>1. Most women can't handle a infantry payload. Some can and more power to
>>them, but majority can't. Not saying that I'm basing my opinion on this
>>principle, but it does serve an ideal. EX. When I was in, we had many
>>ops/humps that consisted of a 20+ mile hike/hump with a 40+ pound pack on
>>our backs, not including the weapons and gear, another 30 pounds. Many of
>>men didn't make it. Dehydration, broken bones, etc. One mission was a one
>>week operation with vector packs. We did this mission for future potential
>>Korea conflicts. In other words mountianous area of 7000 ft plus. Our 
>>packs
>>had 100 pounds not including the 30 ponds of water, ammo, and other such
>>items. Like I said If a women can do this more power to her.
>>
>>This is the weakest points of my arguement
>>
>>2. There was a common phrase in the marines, more like a joke, in which I
>>saw true too many times.When is the only time you see a WM(women Marine) 
>>not
>>pregnant,,,,,,,,,,,, in boot camp(being that Marines males and females are
>>seperated during that phase). In a infantry unit 40-45 men will go into
>>combat. Each time someone falls out of position or has a medical problem,
>>another has to either fill that spot or most likely create a void. Taking
>>away from the unit. This can greatly increase the chance that another unit
>>unit member will get injured or killed.
>>
>>Let's say that a unit consists of 45 people 35 of those are male, I will
>>promise you that 6 of those will be pregnant within six months. With a 
>>bunch
>>of horny males jerking off too sears catalogs, what else would you 
>>suspect.
>>This loss ONLY hurts the whole unit, taking away from the time the 
>>military
>>has put forth in training these fine women. I don't know about all of you,
>>but if I'm going to combat I would rather have a full force than one that
>>has been depleted due to a curable cause.
>>
>>3. Fratinization (spelling, Yup I know I will never win a spelling bee but
>>what the hell),  has destroyed units. I have seen way too many times women
>>humping upper ranks to get their goals met, what ever that be. Meaning 
>>that
>>someone, yet again has to fill a void of a now vacant spot. Whether that 
>>be
>>the first person through the door or a tow gunner, since now they are a 
>>desk
>>jockey. Believe it or not people this happens everyday. There is no need 
>>for
>>it in a combat situation. This only causes animosity throughout the whole
>>unit, which I might remind you is one of the goals,the unit.
>>
>>4. Of course there are other items such as women serving in a infantry
>>situation, in a middle east area. Or the possible outcome of beheaded 
>>women
>>displayed all over the news.
>>
>>These items are dear to me. Only because Ive seen some of them too often.
>>I've never been in combat, and commend those that have sacrificed, Women 
>>and
>>Men. I just don't feel women should ever serve in an infantry unit period.
>>Not because of the physical  part, but what happens to units and how much 
>>it
>>can do to that unit.
>>
>>If and only if these items can be fixed, then will I feel in full
>>confidence, that women should be in INFANTRY organizations.
>>
>>Oh yeah and before anyone asks "why is it that other noncombatant units 
>>due
>>fine with women, so why can't infantry deal with it" approach. let me just
>>remind you that infantry units deal mostly with numbers. Don't believe me
>>check out WW2, korea, Vietnam, First gulf war, and the one now.
>>
>>Take care
>>
>>Matt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:07:16 -0700
>>>
>>>For those of you who do not believe women should be permitted in uniform,
>>>let alone in combat, I commend to you:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Band of Sisters" by Kirsten Holmstedt
>>>
>>>http://www.mil-mall.com/product902.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It is an excellent read.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Tom Hansen
>>>
>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>

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