[Vision2020] Doug Wilson Interview

[Chasuk]

On 1/20/07, Andreas Schou <ophite at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are an incredible number of subjects about which I think it is
> possible to for reasonable people to have reasonable disagreements.
> "Whether or not all homosexuals should be executed" is not one of
> them; "whether or not slavery is morally acceptable" is also not one
> of them. Simply because public disapproval of homosexuality is
> somewhat more socially appropriate in America does not suddenly make
> advocacy of genocide into a subject about which it is reasonable to
> disagree -- which is why I think that attempts at this sort of
> outreach are incredibly wrongheaded. Attempts to meet Christ Church
> halfway only result in a halfway that is equally morally unacceptable.

If Doug Wilson/Christ Church/New St Andrews were Fred Phelps, then I
would agree.  If Doug Wilson/Christ Church/New St Andrews were
sincerely campaigning for the execution of homosexuals, then I would
agree.  However, execution of homosexuals isn't on the agenda at
Christ Church, even if individual members might wish that it were.  A
few members do not an entire body make.

*******************************************************
Here is an extract from the interview concerning homosexuality:
*******************************************************

> You believe that homosexuality is a sin.  Do you believe that
> homosexuality deserves greater condemnation than other sins?
Well, of course, yes and no. I believe that homosexual behavior is worse
than cheating at pinochle. So in that sense, yes. I don't believe that
all sins are equal. At the Last Day, God will judge all men outside of
Christ according to their works, which presumably means something other
than making no distinctions between various sins at all. Homosexual
behavior is a very serious sin, according to St. Paul in Romans 1. But,
having said this, in another very important sense, my answer to this
question would be no, and I believe this answer addresses the real point
of your question. I believe that there are any number of sins that are
comparable to homosexuality with regard to their gravity -- in the same
league, for various reasons. I would say heterosexual adultery would be
one example. I believe that bestiality and child molestation would be worse.

I believe that this is consistent with what Scripture teaches. So
someone with a homosexual orientation (and homosexual temptations) could
be a member of Christ Church in good standing, and not be hassled by
anybody. The problem is this: while I believe that adultery and sodomy
are comparable (both could bring about the death penalty in time of the
Old Testament), the heterosexual still has a lawful outlet for sexual
expression (marriage) while the homosexual does not. In our modern and
egalitarian world (where all orgasms are considered to have been endowed
by their creator with certain inalienable rights) this creates the
perception of an equity problem. But whatever problem this is, it is not
caused by any belief of mine that homosexual sin is the worst possible sin.

*******************************************************
Here the extract ends
*******************************************************

These aren't the words of a man seeking the death penalty for
homosexuals.  Again, I generally prefer to be charitable.  I'm going
to take Doug Wilson at his word, unless his actions prove otherwise.

> I share one belief with Christ Church: that what we hold to be true
> has consequences. I can be friendly, individually, with the members of
> Christ Church, and, frankly, I think people *should*. I also think
> "Hitler Youth" is a bit of a stretch (though I might not if it were my
> particular execution they were calling for). However, being personally
> friendly doesn't make Doug's brand of Christian dominionism something
> that doesn't demand to be exposed, and doesn't make his million-dollar
> religious empire something that doesn't deserve to be financially
> starved out of Moscow.

So, you are saying that, because you find the tenets of the Wilson
empire objectionable, it needs to be driven out of town?  This amazes
me.  Let me give you a list of the things I find objectionable:

1.  Parents who don't understand the intellectual decay that results
from allowing their children to watch a single episode of Big Brother.
 Their children should be taken away.

2.  The whole transubstantiation thing with Roman Catholics.
Ritualistic Cannibalism. Yuck. Drive them out of town.

3.  Smokers.  Where should I have to smell their stinky
clothing/hair/skin/breath when we are sharing public space?  Kick them
all out of Moscow!

4.  Flags.  The pledge.  Patriotic jingoism and brainwashing should
have went out with the Nazis.  Burn all flags and forbid their future
display.    Outlaw the pledge.

Of course, I don't really want to ban any of these things, even though
all of them fill me with puzzlement/amusement/contempt.  Ditto NASCAR,
American Idol, American football, shopping channels.

I would labor greatly to drive a Fred Phelps-like congregation out of
town, if we were so infested.  But we aren't.

I lived for three days on a Hare Krishna ashram.  I've spent hundreds
of hours in Hindu temples.  I've attended synagogues and mosques.
I've been to Mormon services, attended services at JW Kingdom Halls,
and enjoyed fellowship with Seventh Day Adventists.  I've befriended
Satanists and Zoroastrians.  Yet I am a firm anti-theist.

Moscow is a great town, but much of the animosity towards Christ
Church is driven by personal quarrels, misunderstanding,
overzealousness, and bigotry.  I disagree with virtually 100% of what
Doug or Christ Church members hold sacred, but I still find the
attacks against Christ Church hypocritical, divisive, and
counter-productive.

When people work together, it is so much easier to accomplish good.
The childish squabbling that constantly erupts on Vision2020 will
never heal, will never solve anything, and (I fear) will never cease.

I suggest that we book a big hall and hold a big potluck that includes
all of the prime movers in this drama.  Then invite the Jewish
community, the Muslims, the Baha'is, etc., and share (in a
non-confrontational, non-proselytizing manner) what we each believe in
a series of workshops.  Expend this energy that is beneficial instead
of wasteful.   We might come away better people.

Is anybody interested in such an undertaking, with better
organizational skills than me?

Chas