[Vision2020] Democrat Party Civil War
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Mon Jan 15 09:19:00 PST 2007
Keely, I'll bet it's colder than a well digger's butt up there - bad enough
down here. Thank you for your timely and cordial response.
As I have been on this site for barely one year, I hope you will forgive me
for being unaware of your position on abortion as articulated prior to my
arrival.
I was curious as to whether you thought outlawing abortion was morally
justified, not whether it would be easy. And to be sure, I share your view
that a woman who is young, uneducated as to fetal development, and
understandably frightened, is not guilty of murder for having an abortion.
However, the mature and educated doctor who knows full well the degree of
development and must be aware that he is ending a human life with
premeditation, is by our definition of the term, guilty of murder one.
Democrats who I regard as championing abortion are those for whom there is
NO exception to its complete availability. Who feel that the human being
growing innocently in its mommy is merely a lump of tissue, devoid of a soul
and undeserving of human rights. Those who deny the humanity of the yet to
be born in order to rationalize away their nagging guilt over their tragic
position. If you long for a party that supports a pro-life position from
conception to death, you may want to give the republicans another look. As
for a measure that would reduce abortions without victimizing woman -
perhaps even empowering them - have you considered adoption? You confuse me
when you say that you view the democratic party, which has consistently
supported unrestricted abortion, even partial-birth abortion, as more
pro-life than the republicans who support merely a return to pre- Roe,
individual state autonomy.
It seems to me that a belief in the mercy and wisdom of God would lead one
to oppose abortion rather than grudgingly countenance it. It is also unfair
to presume that those who support human rights for unborn humans are
automatically unconcerned about economic, social, cultural and religious
injustices. And certainly, a concern for the social rights of woman should
not translate into a position which would enable them to kill their own
offspring, only to suffer emotional pain for the balance of their
regret-laden life. As for your lack of sensitivity to a man's feeling where
the killing of HIS offspring is concerned, that seems to me to be manifestly
sexist, as though we are brutes who have no feelings and concern for the
children we sire. Is that the kind of male you have encountered in your
life? If so, know that there are those of us who are every bit as invested
in our children as their mothers are. Our interest in our children's
welfare is hardly hypothetical.
Thank you again for the opportunity to engage you in thoughtful dialog on
this most important issue.
Best, -Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Democrat Party Civil War
>
> I'll comment briefly here, because I think most of Vision knows how I
> feel, few could possibly care, and only Tony seems to not understand
> points I've made over the last couple of years.
>
> Yes, I believe abortion is the taking of a human life. I do not believe,
> however, that attempts to make it always illegal are workable, and I
> absolutely reject that a woman who feels desperate enough to have one is a
> murderer.
>
> I am unaware of any Democrat who "champions" abortion. I wish the party
> would return to a classically liberal stance that is pro-life from
> conception to death, and I applaud anything that reduces abortion without
> victimizing women. My disagreement on abortion with most prominent
> Democrats notwithstanding, I believe the Democratic party is overall more
> pro-life than the current iteration of Republicanism that we see around
> us. I hate abortion, which no one I know of "champions," and I hate war,
> rampant hyper-comsumerism, worship of the free market at the expense of
> human beings, the death penalty, racism, sexism, violence against the
> poor, and policies that virtually consign groups of people to permanent
> poverty and powerlessness.
>
> My belief in the mercy and wisdom of God frees me from thinking of
> abortion as the only, even the most important, issue our world faces. And
> as I have expressed numerous times before, I am not impressed with people
> who weep over the deaths of aborted babies without caring about the
> economic, social, cultural and religious injustices that lead a woman to
> embrace it as a choice, and who don't seem to give a rip about the lives
> of poor people after gestation. Further, I find myself reading what men
> think about abortion with a wince and a grimace, which, while perhaps
> unfair, indicates my concern about men weighing in in an area they'll
> never have to explore from any point other than the hypothetical.
>
> "Every woman knows that if she were free, she would never bear an
> unwished-for child, nor think of murdering one before its birth."
>
> Feminist pioneer and the nation's first female presidential candidate
> Victoria Woodhull in 1875.
>
> (And yes, I am aware that she said "murdering," just as I'm sure she would
> see women's powerlessness in the Victorian era as a mitigating factor . .
> . )
>
> keely
>
> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Democrat Party Civil War
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:01:28 -0800
>
> Keely, if you believe that abortion is the taking of a human life, how can
> you support a party which not only condones, but champions it? Surely
> this issue has to trump all others in importance??
>
> Best, -T
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> To: <jampot at adelphia.net>; <ophite at gmail.com>; <timlohr at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Democrat Party Civil War
>
>
>>This is a particular pet peeve of mine and I thank Andreas for his post.
>>
>>The parties are correctly known as the Democratic Party and the Republican
>>Party, as I'm sure just about everyone knows. I'm a Democrat, which means
>>I
>>affiliate with the -- you got it -- Democratic Party. The "-an" in
>>"Republican" serves as a proper descriptor of both the party and its
>>adherents.
>>
>>I suppose, though, that because I generally think that most Republicans
>>are
>>wrong on the issues, I could just use the "-an" and add a
>>patriotic-looking
>>"us," which would leave us with "Republicanus." And if you think that's
>>silly, stupid, juvenile and petty, I agree. Just apply the same standard
>>to
>>those who persist in their sneering use of the "Democrat" party, OK?
>>
>>keely
>>
>>
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>To: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>, "Tim Lohrmann" <timlohr at yahoo.com>
>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Democrat Party Civil War
>>Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 05:40:48 -0800
>>
>>Didn't strike me as particularly odd. Perhaps, oddly appropriate.
>>
>>g
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
>>To: "Tim Lohrmann" <timlohr at yahoo.com>
>>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 7:48 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Democrat Party Civil War
>>
>>
>> > On 1/12/07, Tim Lohrmann <timlohr at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> Dick Morris may be a political prostitute, but he's a smart one.
>> >> TL
>> >
>> > T --
>> >
>> > You've misspelled. It's the "Democratic" party, not the "Democrat"
>> > party. An odd mistake, considering that the correct word is printed
>> > not *two inches* away from the mistake.
>> >
>> > -- ACS
>> >
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>>
>>
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>
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