[Vision2020] Tony's logic and soldier support
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Sat Jan 6 16:29:57 PST 2007
DebRS, just because my putdowns are frontal and straightforward rather than
snide and insinuative, doesn't make them any more hurtful than the myriad
insults thrown at me. Difference is I don't call for the banishment or
censorship of those with whom I disagree. How is my referring to Keely as a
gnarled fishwife any different than your referring to me as a thug or
laughable nutjob? Come on and lighten up. This is a forum for people who
may not agree. They might even vehemently disagree - even to the point of
intemperate rhetoric. At least you know what they really think as opposed
to what some editor chooses to portray.
I must note with considerable amusement the difficulty you have ignoring my
messages even as you insist I am not worthy of serious consideration.
Methinks you doth protest too much.
Confident in my manifest charm, -T
----- Original Message -----
From: <debismith at moscow.com>
To: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tony's logic and soldier support
> You called it, Sunil and Keely. Tony can't help himself. He simply must
> employ a nasty insult,
> as in his world it passes for being clever. He manages to hold it together
> for one post, then
> loses his temper again and begins to rant and foam at the mouth, or smugly
> proclaims that all
> who disagree are less than manly or womanly. As if Little Tony's opinion
> is valid in that
> respect, given how ridiculous are most of his other opinions! Tony is a
> thug, a laughable nutjob,
> or a troll. He is not, however, worth serious consideration.
>
> Debi R-S
>
>
> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> Date sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 23:48:38 -0800
> Copies to: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tony's logic and soldier support
>
> [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]
>
> Keely's attempt to refute my logic relies on a mischaracterization of
> my argument.
>
> Whether anyone has any reservations about the justifiability of
> civilian law enforcement verses military endeavors, is irrelevant.
> The question was whether BOTH occupations contain a significant degree
> of risk, and therefore whether they pose a similar threat to a
> participant's well being, and further, whether or not those in these
> high risk pursuits are justified in accusing their supporters without
> similar experience of being "chicken" for choosing a different path
> during peace time.
>
> Of course we are all now familiar with the ever smug Keeely's penchant
> for reframing another's argument in an inaccurate way and then
> ridiculing them for words she put erroneously into their mouths.
>
> Keeeely, rest assured that the desire to never meet personally appeals
> immensely to me also. I prefer the company of real woman, not craven,
> gnarled, fishwives with chalices of hemlock, looking for someone to
> poison.
>
> With love, -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:13 PM
> Subject: Tony's logic and soldier support
>
>
>> Tony's attempt at logic, below, is deeply flawed.
>>
>> He compares civilian support for law enforcement and the
>> condemnation cops could theoretically heap on folks for being too
>> "cowardly" to serve on the police force with vets' dismissal of
>> non-veterans who crow loudly about the righteousness of wars they
>> don't serve in. It's a false comparison, though. Very few people
>> have any reservations about the establishment and duties of police,
>> firefighters, and other law enforcement/protection personnel. It's
>> a given that in any community, some will be cops, some will be
>> bakers, some will write for newspapers, a few will work in
>> factories, and others will care for kids full time. The presence of
>> law enforcement is commonly seen as a universal good, but that good
>> would be a promised unfulfilled if everyone decided to show their
>> support of it by joining the force.
>>
>> A war, on the other hand, is not seen by all as a universal good,
>> particularly the US war in Iraq. Further, it is indisputably more
>> harmful to psyche and to body to serve on the front lines; it is
>> infinitely safer to advocate for war with full vigor while not
>> serving in capacities that not only invite great and ever-present
>> danger, but also require a surplus of willing participants. Police
>> forces generally require set numbers of armed personnel. War seems
>> to require steady numbers of willing soldiers to enable further
>> conquest and replenish the numbers of those lost in combat, and
>> Chuck Kovis' point that it's easy to rally for war by "supporting
>> the troops" while avoiding combat is an important one.
>>
>> I don't know Chuck Kovis, but hope someday to meet him. I don't
>> know Tony, either, and if the pleasure were indefinitely postponed,
>> I'd be OK with that. Nonetheless, arguing that Chuck's point is
>> formed from bitterness and cynicism and not from a skepticism
>> well-earned does absolutely no justice to whatever point he wishes
>> to make.
>>
>> keely
>>
>>
>> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: And so it begins!!
>> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:04:25 -0800
>>
>> J, I find Chuck's impertinent ad hominum tactics as unpleasant as
>> having to respond to them. Unfortunately, there is a strain of
>> malingering vets who attempt to dismiss any support of our troops by
>> non vets as "chickenhawk" phoniness. The ignorance of such a
>> position is obvious. It would be on a par with a law enforcement
>> officer or firefighter condemning a civilian who had voiced support
>> for them, saying, how can you dare take such a position having never
>> served as a police officer or firefighter yourself? (bear in mind
>> that such careers carry at least as great a statistical risk of
>> injury or death as one in the military.) Clearly it does not
>> automatically follow that public support of those in such careers
>> constitutes cowardice. Such a charge is of course emotionally
>> satisfying to those who are intellectually unable to respond to such
>> support as publicly articulated.
>>
>> Later, -T
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 10:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: And so it begins!!
>>
>>
>> > Jeez, guys - quit with the kicking up of the sand...you're getting
>> > it in everyone's eyes, not just yours.
>> >
>> > Sheesh; if ANYthing were in need of being taken somewhere else -
>> > this be it!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > J :]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>> >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: And so it begins!!
>> >>Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:13:24 -0800
>> >>
>> >>What a bold scary Tiger you are! But so predictable.
>> >>
>> >>Sunil
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> >> >To: "Chuck Kovis" <ckovis at turbonet.com>
>> >> >CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: And so it begins!!
>> >> >Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:16:51 -0800
>> >> >
>> >> >Oh Chuck, you are in another snit, aren't you? I am under no
>> obligation
>> >>to
>> >> >prove a damn thing to you, you pompous prick. We established
>> >> >your
>> >>penchant
>> >> >for challenging the courage of others last fall, did we not?
>> >> >You revel
>> >>in
>> >> >challenging them and then shrink back from confrontation when
>> >> >your
>> bluff
>> >>is
>> >> >called. I am quite prepared to respond unpredictably and
>> >> >decisively to
>> >>an
>> >> >assault by you or any other tyrant. If you are such a brave
>> >> >tough guy Chucko, why don't you test your theory about my lack
>> >> >of guts and look
>> me
>> >>up
>> >> >and get in my face sometime? Afraid you might face at least as
>> >> >great a risk of maiming as that faced by the average military
>> >> >enlistee? Yep, just
>> as
>> >>I
>> >> >thought, it is you who are the chickenshit.
>> >> >
>> >> >Now go kiss my ass. -TONY----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: "Chuck Kovis" <ckovis at turbonet.com>
>> >> >To: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> >> >Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >> >Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 10:30 AM
>> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: And so it begins!!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > Tony, I'm not ticked that I served my country. I'd do it it a
>> >>heartbeat.
>> >> > > I'm ticked that people like you and Pat don't. I can't for
>> >> > > the life
>> >>of
>> >> >me
>> >> > > figure out why people like you and Pat who want to "bomb them
>> >> > > back
>> to
>> >> >the
>> >> > > stone age" don't volunteer and fight the wars that you think
>> everyone
>> >> >else
>> >> > > should. Give me a good reason to believe that you are not a
>> >> > > great big chickenshit. Chuck Kovis
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >=======================================================
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