[Vision2020] racist terms (was Godwin's law)

Tony tonytime at clearwire.net
Fri Feb 9 09:20:47 PST 2007 

Keely, your answer to my well reasoned and thoughtful explanation of my 
motives was completely gratuitous and non-responsive to the points made. 
Would you care to try again, or are you unable to grasp, let alone respond 
to, such subtle yet critical distinctions?

Waiting for the hysteria to subside,  -T
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <davesway at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: racist terms (was Godwin's law)


> I'm afraid this is not a "critical distinction" between one thing or the 
> other.
>
> It's a bloviating, self-justifying example of tortured logic and ragged 
> rhetoric that you pretend to offer as a defense for the indefensible, 
> knowing full well that the foundation it springs from is rotten to the 
> core.
>
> keely
>
>
> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:49:17 -0800
>
> A critical distinction:  One can use a term others regard as inflamatory
> toward a race of people, without himself intending to cast aspersions on
> that group as a whole.  Perhaps one finds the bombing of woman and 
> children
> as well as the be-heading of terrified innocent captives abhorant, and 
> finds
> that such perpetrators invariably wear head scarves.  It is not entirely
> inconcievable that he might then use the term RAGHEAD in reference to 
> these
> beasts who kill good people and kids, not in reference to their race, but
> out of a justified outrage over their BEHAVIOR.  Such a scenario will
> frequently cause those hearing such commentary to conclude the
> writer/speaker is racist, ignorant as they are of his specific, 
> non-racial,
> rather, behavioral based criticism.
>
> Therefore, Sunil, if an African American had be-headed Daniel Pearle, and
> another had criticised the killer as a miserable nigger, the other would 
> be
> guilty of using a term most folks would regard as referencing the
> perpetrator's race.  However, for reasons stated above, the other could
> actually harbor NO RACIAL intent whatsoever, but himself be referencing 
> the
> perp's atrocious behavior.
>
> Now, Sunil, you have the information you need to avoid making anymore
> erroneous postings as to my motives.
>
> Cheers,  -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
> To: <jampot at adelphia.net>; <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>
>
> >
> >>Hi Gary,
> > It seems to me there is a difference between cultivating hate and
> > expressing
> > situational anger. Cultivating kindness, a higher order art. In my
> opinion
> > a
> > better route to an improved humanity. Not easy for a lot of us.
> > I don't see you as a hate cultivator, in fact it seems you might even be
> > trying to make efforts against it in concentrated areas.
> > In this situation and others similar to it, I think you miss-measured
> > Sue's
> > reaction. It was situational in reaction to a clear practitioner of hate
> > cultivation. Can she do better, you bet. Your knowing that, taking the
> > grain
> > of truth in her grain of fault and hyper-inflating it, is a bully's
> > support
> > group method. This technique is not a strength for anybody.
> > I agree with Sunil's response, but in light of your effort here, wonder
> if
> > you might be amenable to exploring your examples a bit.
> > Recently, comedian Michael Richards made a lot of trouble for himself
> > using
> > the N word. I suspect you are familiar with that news line. Do you think
> > Richard made a forgivable mistake? Is there something there that he 
> > needs
> > to
> > remediate within himself?
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >>Gary,
> >>
> >>So if an African-American killed the same person in the manner you
> >>describe,
> >>the statement "That miserable nigger just cut the head off of a American
> >>non-combatant," would not be racist?
> >>
> >>You're right, I don't like or agree with your rationale.
> >>
> >>I think it's a mistake to link emotion with the use of racist language 
> >>or
> >>attitudes.  Racist decisions and statements are easily made in the
> absence
> >>of emotion; I think they're the results of attitudes developed over a
> >>lifetime and ingrained in cultures and individual people.  I don't think
> >>any
> >>particular 'race' or group has a monopoly on racism.  I know I've often
> >>heard racist statements expresses as casually as a request for a drink 
> >>of
> >>water.  There's no requirement for actions as you suggest; statements
> >>express one's views quite effectively.
> >>
> >>Sunil
> >>
> >>
> >> >From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> >> >To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >> >CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >> >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 07:12:39 -0800
> >> >
> >> >Well Sunil, since you insist on trying to chase me out onto a thin
> limb,
> >> >I'll give you my take on comments such as the one you refer to. You
> >> >won't
> >> >like or agree with it, I suspect, but here goes. Please bare in mind
> >> >that
> >>I
> >> >speak for myself and not anyone else to who you might attribute a lack
> >> >of
> >> >sensitivity.
> >> >
> >> >When someone makes a remark like "All ragheads are vermin and have no
> >>right
> >> >to live" it is inexcusably racist and deserves to be denounced at 
> >> >every
> >> >possible turn.
> >> >
> >> >When someone says "That miserable raghead just cut the head off of a
> >> >American non-combatant," it is a minor lapse of manner(s) or tact.
> >> >Unfortunate but, forgivable. Not, in my opinion, an indication of
> racism
> >> >per se.
> >> >
> >> >In the first you are calmly stating your contemptible and 
> >> >unsupportable
> >> >opinion of a large group/race of people. In the second you are
> >> >expressing
> >> >your anger and frustration at an individual or small group of proven
> >> >evil
> >> >doers with language that is intemperate and poorly chosen.
> >> >
> >> >Racism is, in my opinion, demonstrated by actions. It is hinted at,
> >> >sometimes incorrectly, by individual words.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I hope that this does not change your opinion of my fitness as company
> >> >on
> >> >the list.
> >> >
> >> >g
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >> >Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 9:31 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Gary,
> >> > >
> >> > > Are racist slurs minor lapses of manner or tact?
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this question isn't considered trash talk, or 'self
> righteous,
> >> >self
> >> > > satisfied, school yard sputtering,' though you may well consider me
> >> > > an
> >> > > additional player; happy to have you as company on that list.
> >> > >
> >> > > Sunil
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> >> > >>To: <debismith at moscow.com>, <suehovey at moscow.com>,
> >> ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> > >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
> >> > >>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:07:27 -0800
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Extremely interesting. Should someone from the mildly conservative
> >>side
> >> >of
> >> > >>the fence have a minor lapse of manners or tact, the squealing and
> >> > >>castigation rises to a level at which our canine friends experience
> >> > >>profound and lasting aural pain.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>But on the other hand it's OK to demean the offender with a level 
> >> > >>of
> >> > >>calumny several orders of magnitude greater then anything 
> >> > >>originally
> >> >said.
> >> > >>I mean really, when you feel you have to resort to not so subtly
> >>calling
> >> > >>someone's mother a bitch along with the silly BS in the post to
> which
> >> >I'm
> >> > >>responding, you really have to wonder If Ms. Hovey, Ms. R-S, Mr.
> Fox,
> >> >and
> >> > >>the rest of the usual suspects have any sense of irony at all.
> Double
> >> > >>standard risen to the power of hypocritical joke. What's even
> funnier
> >>is
> >> > >>that this communication will likely raise the trash talk to the 
> >> > >>next
> >> >level
> >> > >>as well as spread it to additional players. Who needs comedy 
> >> > >>central
> >> >when
> >> > >>we've got the V.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Commence self righteous, self satisfied, school yard sputtering,
> >> > >>g
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > =======================================================
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> >> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> > >               http://www.fsr.net
> >> > >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> >> > >
> >>
> >>
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> >>                http://www.fsr.net
> >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>=======================================================
> >
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>
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