[Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability

[Chasuk]

On Dec 28, 2007 6:51 PM, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> asks:

> 1. Of all the deaths caused by religous fundamentalists in the, how many
> were caused by Christians? How many of the victims were Christian? Please
> try and contain your answer to the last two centurys, please.

> 2.How many of those unfortunate occourances were/are attributable to Wilson?

> 3.What is it you suggest should be done to curb the murderous rampage that
> is causing this horrifying rift in the community, aside from spending an
> excrusiating amount of time being tortured at  www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier?

I will try to answer these questions, though understand that I am not
a historian.  But first, a preamble.

Religious fundamentalism, whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu,
etc., is a mindset that scares us non-fundamentalists because it can
seemingly be used to justify almost anything.  Most fundamentalists
take their faith with extreme seriousness.  It is of ultimate, even
cosmic importance.  However, not all fundamentalists are religious.
Some are secular.  Stalin was a fundamentalist.  Recent history is
rife with murderous non-theistic fundamentalists.

To the non-fundamentalist, religious and secular fundamentalism seems
frighteningly similar.  They both involve persons who possess, and
apparently require, absolute conviction in their doctrinal beliefs.
Some profess the necessity of  doubt, yet would paradoxically die for
their beliefs.  Christians in China are persecuted for their faith; I
suggest that the expedient solution would be to abandon Christianity.
But of course most don't, because they are fundamentalists.  So we
have religious fundamentalists being persecuted by secular
fundamentalists.  If the religious fundamentalists suddenly
outnumbered the secular fundamentalists, would the situation would be
reversed?  I believe that history tells us yes.

> 1[a]. Of all the deaths caused by religous fundamentalists in the, how many
> were caused by Christians?

As a percentage when compared to other religions, not very many,
directly.  Indirectly, tens of millions.  I am willing to admit that
Hitler might have been a faux-Christian, but the behavior he inspired
had been virtually de rigeur in Christianity for centuries.

< 1[b]. How many of the victims were Christian? Please
> try and contain your answer to the last two centurys, please.

I don't know.  In the US, we had the American Civil War, fought with
fundamentalist fervor, Christians slaughtering Christians, but I
can't tell you how many died.  Too many, whatever the number.

> 2.How many of those unfortunate occourances were/are attributable to Wilson?

I would be surprised if Wilson's fundamentalism had ever caused a
death, directly or indirectly.  Many non-fundamentalists believe that
fundamentalism alway kills, eventually.  If these beliefs of
non-fundamentalists are correct, then curtailing the spread of
Wilsonian fundamentalism is akin to preventative medicine.

Which provides a segue to this...

> 3.What is it you suggest should be done to curb the murderous rampage that
> is causing this horrifying rift in the community, aside from spending an
> excrusiating amount of time being tortured at  www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier?

Education.  That's what Gier is trying to provide, whether you find it
torturous or not.  Arguably, he might be making things worse, by
making Wilson a bigger bogeyman than he actually is, effecively giving
Wilson free publicity.  But that is a another argument.

I don't believe that Wilson or his followers are worth all of the
attention.  There must be at least half a dozen congregations in
Moscow with beliefs as objectionable as Wilson's.  Most of the
adherents of these other congregations, and of Christ Church, don't
follow the precepts of their leaders any more than most Roman
Catholics abstain from birth control.  That's because they aren't
fundamentalists.  Maybe their leaders are, but they aren't.

Religious belief and religious lip service are different things.  I
don't say "lip service" in a dismissive way; many of us belong to
groups that officially maintain a set of standards that are contrary
to what we really believe.  Our true beliefs are reflected in our
actions.  If we waited to join any organization until we found one
that matched our deepest beliefs 100%, then we might wait a lifetime.
The majority of us compromise.  We find an organization of our
approximate social class, with friendly people who make us feel good
to belong, so we join.

Christianity, as a whole, has improved dramatically over the last 200
years.  At least, the part of Christianity that has matured past
fundamentalism, the part that seems actually to be concerned with
feeding and clothing and nurturing, discarding doctrine that justifies
gross inhumanity.

That's why people protest Wilsonian fundamentalism.  We are just out
of the Dark Ages, and we don't want to see it revisited in gentle
Moscow.  Again, that fear may be misguided, and counterproductive, but
that is the intention.

Chas