[Vision2020] Civility is a two-way street
Sunil Ramalingam
sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Wed Dec 5 19:17:47 PST 2007
And in the same spirit, Seasons Greetings to you, Bald Guy.
I say that confident in my encroaching hairline. It and my eyebrow are racing to the middle of my threehead.
Sunil
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:12:54 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way street
Me neither and of course he doesn't deserve it. I do it
out of the goodness of my heart and in the giving spirit of the season. Happy
Holidays, Brain-Guy!
g
----- Original Message -----
From:
keely emerinemix
To: g. crabtree ; Scott Dredge ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 7:05
PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Civility is a
two-way street
I don't know Ted. Never met him, wouldn't recognize him
if he was walking down the street in front of me. However, I've found
him to be honest and insightful, and he doesn't deserve
this.
Keely
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed,
5 Dec 2007 18:07:26 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way
street
And there we go! Why in the world would I
need to devote any effort to making Mr. Muffett look silly when he does
such a yeoman like job all by his lonesome. His " I am Spock, resurrected"
spiel takes pompous to a here to fore unexplored level and his
claims of being on the very verge of becoming a transcendent creature of
pure intellect makes me wonder if he gets out of his mothers basement much.
(I picture brain-Guy from MST3K hollering up the stairs "Quiet Ma, I'm
almost ready to shed this vile carbon based vessel and become a ray of
environmentally friendly energy. Bring me another Twinkie and a Sprite!" )
Keep pecking away on that man made global warming obsession you've got
going, I'm sure that Al Gore will be around any day to thank you for your
efforts assuming you haven't, well you know, transformed. I know I sure
am happy you've been on the case. My appreciation is boundless, my amusement
total.
Keep on thinkin' the big thoughts
Tiger,
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:42
AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a two-way
street
>> Ted wrote:
>> Scott et.
al.
>>
>> You must be kidding?
>>
> Not at
all.
>
>> You write as though you think Vision2020 is some
sort of ghetto gang
>> scene ("street fighter?" "toe to toe?")
where making an ass of someone
>> dictates dominance and
power? How pathetic! The more enlightened
>> readership
on this list does not buy into this crude mentality.
>
> v2020
is an unmoderated list. The more enlightened readership hits the
delete
> key on most of the postings including this one without
reading any further (I
> would hope).
>
>> Let Gary
Crabtree "make complete asses out of the both of you on this
>>
site," as you wrote. I''ll just sit back and laugh!
>
>
At this point, fine by me.
>
>> I am above the sort of
irrational nonsense that Gary Crabtree posts to
>> this list, or to
that community joke, "wrong-mind.us" I don't care
>> what he
says, if there is no content worth responding to, I simply
>>
ignore it as not worth my time. Ad hominem attacks, be my
guest.
>> I've faced this many times before, in rather extreme
ways, and if Gary
>> Crabtree thinks he can rattle my cage, "bring
it on (God bless
>> conservative hero and professional moron George
W. Bush for this now
>> immortal phrase signifying the idiocy of
cowboy macho
>> overconfidence)."
>
> Perfect! I
hope we don't ever again need to read from you or anyone else
> about
how unethical Gary was for posting a private email considering you
>
don't care what he posts. But since this cardinal sin is such a hot
button
> issue that really gets under your craw, I guess we'll just
have to wait and
> see who gets blamed for what wrongdoing the next
time HeirDoug or
> (anyone else for that matter) just 'cuts &
pastes" from the v2020 archives.
>
>> I am interested in
fact based logical discourse on important issues,
>> in the Truth,
not personal ego battles, or moral superiority
>> competitions
between morally faulted human beings (as we all are!).
>> Anyone
following my responses to ridiculous irrational attacks on
>>
Vision2020, aimed my way, should realize this.
>
> Great!
Start a new thread with a new subject line on some new topic
> more
important than this one.
>
>> The Temple of Reason is where
I dwell on this list. And without
>> radical means of
persuasion, I will not falter from this position.
>
> Good to
hear.
>
>> Come on Gary, make an ass of me! I'll
relish ignoring your every
>> attempt, as I continue to post on
more important issues, like
>> anthropogenic climate change.
I know how devoted you are to
>> discovering the truth on this
issue, being someone focused on the
>> objective pursuit of
knowledge... Well, we can hope!
>
> Good to hear a couple
paragraphs above that you'll be ignoring Gary.
>
>> Ted
Moffett
>
> Scott Dredge
>
> On 12/3/07, Scott
Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> Ted / Joe,
>>
>> FWIW, I'm speaking for
Gary because I truly do not want to see him
> make complete asses
out of the both of you on this site on this issue and
> I'm
trying to explain this in a way that I *thought* would make
sense
> to both of you. Gary's not going to follow your
idea of proper list
> server etiquette. He doesn't give a
good God Damn if anyone thinks his
> posting of a private email
was unethical. He posted a private email to
> let everyone
know he received it and my guess is that he would prefer
> to
receive no more emails like it (or maybe he would like to
receive
> them and so he can post them publicly again). So
don't send any to him.
>>
>> Gary can waste his time
responding on this but he's going to make
> both of you look just
plain bad. If you want to go toe to toe with Gary,
> be my
guest. Just be aware that Gary is a street fighter and he's
not
> going to play by whatever rules you think he should play by
and
> ultimately he's going to bait both of you into looking very
foolish. He's
> good at it. Beyond that, he's not
emotionally charged by this issue like
> you and Joe are which is
what started this whole foolish nonsense to
> begin with.
He's not the one keeping this thing alive, the two of your
> are
along with a little help from HeirDoug posing in drag. If you
want
> this issue to go away, then drop it. I've got
nothing more to say on
> it so I'll just stand back, watch the
carnage that Gary dishes out, and
> just shake my
head.
>>
>> Take it away Gary, I'm sure this is going to
be child's play for you
> but I've done my best to warn both of
them...
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>> -----
Original Message ----
>> From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
>> To: Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>; Joe
Campbell
> <joekc at adelphia.net>
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 11:34:29 PM
>> Subject: [Vision2020]
Civility is a two-way street
>>
>>
>> Scott et.
al.
>>
>> You write as though you are Gary Crabtree's
conscience in this
> matter,
>> when you write that
"He's more than happy to move forward." Let Gary
>> speak for
himself. Why are you speaking for him?
>>
>> Also,
Joe's recent response to Gary in this thread was correct in
>>
pointing out that the assumption that Gary might have posted the
>>
recent re-posting of Joe's private e-mail, was not based on
>>
"non-existent evidence," as Gary claimed. The fact Gary
originally
>> posted this private message, and has disputed with
Joe many times on
>> Vision2020, is evidence to suggest Gary might
engage in this conduct
>> again, to undermine Joe's recent post
with this subject heading,
>> responding to Atwood's Daily News
Op-Ed.
>>
>> Also, your argument immediately below,
attempting to remove any
>> responsibility for objectionable list
serve conduct on the part of
>> Gary for posting of a private
e-mail, is questionable. It is
> accepted
>> by
almost all on this list serve that private e-mail not be posted
to
>> the list. If this was happening with regularity, it
would certainly
>> undermine the health of this list, based in part
on trust between
>> people for respect for their privacy. I
do not know all the details
>> of the case with Wilson and Morin
you refer to, but I doubt the two
>> examples are precisely
analogous. I have received insulting private
>> e-mails from
Vision2020 list members (along with a much larger
>> percentage of
positive private responses!), but I have
never
> responded
>> by posting these insulting private
messages.
>>
>> Scott wrote:
>>
>>
Sending Gary an insulting email was your fault. You
apologized.
>> Nothing more needs to be said. Trying to pin
any blame on Gary for
>> forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as
Doug Wilson's complaint
>> against Terry Morin for posting
supposedly secret documents for the
>> whole world to see Doug as a
rotten, lying skunk.
>> ------------------
>> Vision2020
Post: Ted Moffett
>>
>>
>> On 12/2/07, Scott
Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> > Joe,
>> >
>> > When this
brouhaha first came to light, I recall you
apologizing
> and
>> Gary Crabtree accepting the
apology and saying something to effect
> of
>>
"let's move on". Gary isn't the one being petty about this and
I'm
> sure
>> he'd like nothing better than to
move on to scoring more debate
> points
>> on
v2020 which is something he does very well being the
master
> debater
>> that he is.
>>
>
>> > Sending Gary an insulting email was your fault.
You apologized.
>> Nothing more needs to be said.
Trying to pin any blame on Gary for
>> forwarding it v2020 is
as weak to me as Doug Wilson's complaint
> against
Terry
>> Morin for posting supposedly secret documents for
the whole world to
>> see Doug as a rotten, lying
skunk.
>> >
>> > There's not much you can do about
Dale or HeirDoug reposting it
> again
>> and
again. They don't quite understand the whole "I'm sorry, I
made
> a
>> mistake, I'll try not to make the same
one again" scenario. What
> else
>> would
you expect from disciples of a rogue pastor who makes
all
> sorts
>> of ludicrous statements and never
refutes them because in his own
> mind
>> it's a
weakness to admit to any mistake (no matter how painfully
>>
obvious)?
>> >
>> > My advice is that when Heirdoug
plays this card again - and you
> know
>> he will
because he's not very creative - leave Gary out of the
mix.
>> He's more than happy to move forward.
>>
>
>> > -Scott
>> >
>> > -----
Original Message ----
>> > From: Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
>>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
> Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 8:46:50 PM
>> > Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Civility is a 2-way street.
>> >
>>
>
>> > Ted writes: "...given Gary Crabtree was the
fully
>> > disclosed source of the original posting of this
private e-mail, in
>> > violation of the 'rule' that private
messages not be posted to
>> > Vision2020, it is reasonable to
assume he might engage in the same
>> > conduct again,
correct?"
>> >
>> > Gary writes: "Making assumptions
based on nonexistent evidence is
>> >
generally
>> > ill advised."
>> >
>> >
Your NAME was on the the posted letter. How is that a lack
of
>> evidence?
>> >
>> > For the
record, I don't think you posted the recent letter. But
you
>> did
>> > post the
>> >
initial PRIVATE letter -- precisely so your Kirk friends
could
>> re-post
>> > it over
>>
> and over and over again. So it isn't exactly as if you are
without
>> > blame!
>> >
>> > I
await your insults, fallacies, and evasions. If nothing
else,
> they
>> > provide a
>> >
source of amusement to the other readers.
>> >
>> >
-- Joe Campbell
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
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